From nobody Mon Mar 9 09:48:54 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fTsg36qbdz6VTvK for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 09:49:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.n.feld@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x129.google.com (mail-lf1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fTsg327Wlz3cgM for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 09:49:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from sebastian.n.feld@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20230601 header.b=XfOxJII3; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; arc=pass ("google.com:s=arc-20240605:i=1"); spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of sebastian.n.feld@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::129 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=sebastian.n.feld@gmail.com Received: by mail-lf1-x129.google.com with SMTP id 2adb3069b0e04-5a1282bc6aaso4171077e87.2 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 02:49:35 -0700 (PDT) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1773049772; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=kJaJaL76E1IfAHizeGkMXYQ+486pF8gkxBKU2bR8FSLArPPw91eZN/MnkgCTAs/wE3 grvFFADsvgb5CE8hFhbJu0HDLLiWZGKE5m90X1xNTCykBNDsx34aM0hWPXIvQjLz3mDs WdzJevd9rEi+lXuSK56gWcwhUtbw8KqBl2d6Cuem3iUWhWQorX5r1jZhQC6L3VFFgx7A s2WislbhgJgqksCR+7kjUkoI4MbneYQPr1r8olW1snyhevhw1cnuhcEJ2ptcRY/9LZQB gEyzFZmigJn+8rSDBTVJ37HerY1daNX43izCWwKsxqAfDx0pBtsqpYZN8vqvOfQH9jtZ SMEg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=F8wMhx6/6/nfPkqZFqjUwRizmRwnjrWgx+30iqihSvE=; fh=BGnlq/Bnk5yuHoIOHmeKjbe0R0Wn0sUc6aL/mCAMBkg=; b=C8j/+7gmd3zPEhQx6IxhXjRqIWHKKIS05WCE1BVTvsrsEplVg6MDEyJuG5KrBL6zso SKi7oImhrP9qxD+2KAAb6MinmvO1ehzcc6FQM79cOcwlco0XiUe5Tzx3j5U9rlKWRlgE ACg1W1/Pq5rw2GBrDPGq9pX1tgqhtwuFZHIwIec0yb4GU48X4bP2NFc62uJt23EIJOCv pZLTBlpGv1huxSRVAgmbTw0DuX7XLzj5kF9zs75o+CrghD4wJH8mntBgjzuLAPLwduQe c9gtgjhwNoKEEw6u5y+V+w+f0ScVpv7ezE9OcuIPOeCeSppleKHwy57dDJ/4dk16UwJt NZSQ==; darn=freebsd.org ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1773049772; x=1773654572; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject :date:message-id:reply-to; bh=F8wMhx6/6/nfPkqZFqjUwRizmRwnjrWgx+30iqihSvE=; b=XfOxJII3DE6ZGbSfNZtwxrCVDyxyWXyslBQWyEOKkn4Q+zBrEAQmkIyCg62ioQrEpK fQWQHTFZ4eXBdIp12b7x8GKhSVF82+IXWZGCjatFSV2LqCvoRpXGPkqnBIAMnTRnwtqC rJW+oH6pWpcautYQDMkNhuZ6l7SSwc6D1mW7Gd+z/ZiQ8Md3ac8tkfehwnm8zeTwgr5d j6f1iWlhgjY6V/1EndBSRu0DpGetZIHi+EBYgIrMU64UkuHp6Sd+ayyEdoaDaBbcyU2Y uki0lQbdJ6UXKkcUXf/f5eIRzvha1pzEWyeevCtwrG6IlcHSYYip3g34gVkNScO+yIMk Ivug== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1773049772; x=1773654572; h=to:subject:message-id:date:from:mime-version:x-gm-gg :x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=F8wMhx6/6/nfPkqZFqjUwRizmRwnjrWgx+30iqihSvE=; b=AIO4MqqEwXNaasXZfvX+iY/wWIOxVcGkhHLPy6Bw4+zkczxRToYDFdQ7NhrEEr30td l4hqsiagpMdejriW4CO5Qw2ufzxLWp97tk/lNiARu1Q+kI+ForQPtUKkff9doXJ/Gvs7 SNQVjbCrCI5dq6HLmOBteSHktrb20FVtNGKzATfhnjNjay91NqUDfHpct3TsT3dt+q2m w/Kxgm6Mjj2rM+YTU2eum6dbmh1aHrKROSpYKfECoCVfkDDBqUs7TcrGe1cUAhGxjTku gjItiwv39U1ypnMf2EU6p8j6pad6gweJJawKHTMmIeqyTiDZK5n7qCJqc8ms1enOX1Cf ZgkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzVqbpCuMcZmgXLHfSwNKlNeQ5Atk/RWti89P0EZtQWd3KjDG6L UrOMCs5pkpDhIkQtpNubYc6fr/5D006Jgp3R+vE3imosP29lC73MRYXLOzeXBVhUC+uD88uJ4f+ wp7z/4Is2uVC4jfsKlztxqcA57fRn5JaK8w== X-Gm-Gg: ATEYQzxheToQDmDESYtCff2fRqPLX+w1xlOLYGmqn93insjGm4nJW/tYwgc18EDzFad gzcYBrUemf0MmzUw4CBIKyOAgY+YcEGeT2SwH52yprpz+6fyLkiZFHt5NNOx3/AIIXwMIjpRzn1 QfEpWTgfzPZe+uAMixqdjRGtR3XhDBMpTmow1SmlrjZXdwhs0GD0lwjOamscLkbrej/WBT4sWfL UNANQfALkl1Df1+c18y7kHC+ny4fQRWXTjOBr7Gc6TzvRm9Eu2RmY9rU/Y6iUKRAp1EhNRan1q6 Mcu3txMtij0g7i2kTQH1DY9az2JGsJTHZEkE/cUy05Mdo30zsA== X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:1582:b0:38a:46e8:d59d with SMTP id 38308e7fff4ca-38a46e8dd03mr21151351fa.12.1773049771681; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 02:49:31 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Sebastian Feld Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 10:48:54 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AaiRm51Zo7xpeJGiPyubaRz63Z3oENfKk-XIM1zWlci3H23EwFeuxWoDvuYVzzk Message-ID: Subject: Thank you for named attribute support (OPENATTR) in FreeBSD nfsd! To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.90 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[google.com:s=arc-20240605:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.90)[-0.905]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; SUBJECT_ENDS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROMTLD(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::129:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fTsg327Wlz3cgM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- A wee bit off topic here... I wish to say Thank You! for adding named attribute support (OPENATTR) in FreeBSD nfsd! Please keep up the good work! Sebi -- Sebastian Feld - IT security consultant From nobody Mon Mar 9 16:42:52 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fV2rp08v1z6TV0P for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 16:43:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roland.mainz@nrubsig.org) Received: from buffalo.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net (buffalo.tulip.relay.mailchannels.net [23.83.218.24]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fV2rn0xdhz3LQr for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 16:43:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from roland.mainz@nrubsig.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=nrubsig.org header.s=dreamhost header.b=V1dVwzxb; dmarc=none; arc=pass ("mailchannels.net:s=arc-2022:i=1"); spf=neutral (mx1.freebsd.org: 23.83.218.24 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of roland.mainz@nrubsig.org) smtp.mailfrom=roland.mainz@nrubsig.org X-Sender-Id: dreamhost|x-authsender|gisburn@nrubsig.org Received: from relay.mailchannels.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by relay.mailchannels.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27BFB122924 for ; 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Mon, 09 Mar 2026 09:43:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy7ZGspM/Yq0/eowVG8x5ZDku2RqZIisD6pFs0pkC2R5B+JzQHs gvPxpKqjJSzr/LAeFP755aDInT2b8Ckzk+b4DnF9rsfkVqikDUkqIw41HdMrerzvoiq/mBh5cZH wORhGLkKIFODCD8uYJBHXK6jtJjABigE= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:1865:b0:439:bcab:405e with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-439da885f29mr20481496f8f.35.1773074611829; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 09:43:31 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Roland Mainz Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 17:42:52 +0100 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: AaiRm51vbywcKS8cFrcTTOuna5rXXI-1__UAgWtx1iU3iktf75vp9MPOCf2MPD4 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Ms-nfs41-client-devel] FreeBSD-16.0-CURRENT-amd64-20260224: NFSv4.2 on Windows: mkdir fails, touch works To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, ms-nfs41-client-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.30 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[mailchannels.net:s=arc-2022:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[nrubsig.org:s=dreamhost]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; R_SPF_NEUTRAL(0.00)[?all]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:63213, ipnet:23.83.216.0/22, country:CA]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[23.83.218.24:from]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[23.83.218.24:from,209.85.221.53:received]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nrubsig.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[nrubsig.org:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV2rn0xdhz3LQr X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On Sat, Mar 7, 2026 at 10:28=E2=80=AFPM Rick Macklem wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2026 at 9:27=E2=80=AFAM Dan Shelton wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > some odd issue with FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT main-n284403-895a97c875a0 > > (installed from > > FreeBSD-16.0-CURRENT-amd64-20260224-16822dac32ab-284159-disc1.iso) and > > ms-nfs41-client: > > $ /sbin/nfs_mount -o rw 'F:' 'nfs://42.28.16.228//nfsdata' > > Successfully mounted '42.28.16.228@NFS@2049' to drive 'F:' > > $ cd /cygdrive/f/dsheldon/tmp/freebsdtests > > > > $ touch x > > $ mkdir y_dir > > mkdir: cannot create directory =E2=80=98y_dir=E2=80=99: Permission deni= ed > > > > I tried this: > > $ chmod a+rwx . > > $ mkdir y_dir > > mkdir: cannot create directory =E2=80=98y_dir=E2=80=99: Permission deni= ed > > > > > > No ACLs involved. > > The same setup works with FreeBSD 15.0. > > > > How can I debug this, or is this a known issue? > Hmm. I don't think anything has changed for mkdir between > 15.0 and man/16 in the NFS server code. > > - If the mkdir request (actually MKNOD in NFSv4) specifies > an owner or owner_group, the permissions are checked as follows: > - For setting owner to anything other than the uid of the caller in > the RPC request's credentials, the caller must be root and the > file system exported -maproot=3Droot. > - For setting an owner_group, the gid owner_group maps to must > be in the gid list of the RPC's credentials. > > I'd suggest you capture packets when the mkdir fails and then.. > - Either look at them in wireshark yourself and see what attributes > are being set by the operation. In particular, check for any ACL > being specified (I know you said ACLs are not involved, but..) > along with OWNER and OWNER_GROUP. > or > - Make the packet capture available to me and I'll look at it. > > I suspect the NFS4ERR_PERM is being generated because of > the attributes being set by the MKNOD operation and I suspect > there is some difference between how you have 15.0 configured > and main/16 configured. [snip] It seems to be an issue with |FATTR4_ARCHIVE| ... I filed https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D293691 ("NFSv4.1 client trying to set |FATTR4_ARCHIVE| gets EPERM for file/dir creation attempts") for this, and added https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D292283 ("Bug 292283 - (JAVA) NFSv4.1 client trying to set FATTR4_SYSTEM or FATTR4_HIDDEN gets EPERM for file and dir creation attemps") as reference since the same kind of workaround seems to work. Next release for ms-nfs41-client includes a workaround (see https://github.com/kofemann/ms-nfs41-client/commit/7156d9f9deb25843e57fd455= d8ec67951b82c737) which should avoid this bug, but I will remove that workaround as soon as a fixed release version of FreeBSD will become available... ---- Bye, Roland --=20 __ . . __ (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer /O /=3D=3D\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 (;O/ \/ \O;) From nobody Mon Mar 9 17:39:51 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fV45w0Gp9z6TZ8s; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 17:40:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo75.interia.pl (smtpo75.interia.pl [217.74.67.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fV45t4jYMz3Tw2; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 17:40:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=dk header.b=bagEgxsg; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2026 18:39:51 +0100 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem To: Warner Losh Cc: Vincent Bentley , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.13 Message-Id: List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[interia.pl:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV45t4jYMz3Tw2 X-Spamd-Bar: - Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged Regards, vermaden From nobody Mon Mar 9 17:43:10 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fV49r3q6Yz6TZhK for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 17:43:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-pj1-x1031.google.com (mail-pj1-x1031.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1031]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fV49r1816z3Wdm for ; 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Mon, 09 Mar 2026 10:43:21 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 11:43:10 -0600 X-Gm-Features: AaiRm52Q9kY4_vd3Ik6bkqjB4OBR5xF-pyAgFFJfgp6Nd9TwcIbh6R8vV1SbvOE Message-ID: Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem To: vermaden Cc: Vincent Bentley , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000061cfba064c9af08a" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV49r1816z3Wdm X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --00000000000061cfba064c9af08a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The man page is wrong. It may be required, but usually isn't. Warner On Mon, Mar 9, 2026, 11:39=E2=80=AFAM vermaden wrote: > Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: > - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged > > Regards, > vermaden > > --00000000000061cfba064c9af08a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
The man page is wrong. It may be required, but usually is= n't.=C2=A0

Warner

On Mon, Mar 9, 2026, 11:39=E2=80=AFAM vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrote:
Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created = aged(8) here:
- https://github.com/Midnight= BSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged

Regards,
vermaden

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[2.100.171.17]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id ffacd0b85a97d-439dad8ec97sm31491777f8f.5.2026.03.09.11.34.27 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Mar 2026 11:34:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <84eed8be-3dbb-40aa-91fb-bf46929dc486@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 18:34:26 +0000 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: Graham Perrin Content-Language: en-GB To: freebsd-hackers Subject: FreeBSDKit aged, agectl, AgeSignal Autocrypt: addr=grahamperrin@gmail.com; keydata= xsFNBGKYt7ABEAClu83dJ3ZKfVgPOk9YKRv0Z+dl2b88+k9R4vwAmElgguYdKE7yhnQNhhWM v9vi6AFrBMc2oJdVHJ2OrXfwpELBFIgiSMEWNsC4e+Z3HtSajcl+pFZsP7ciiSoycj/w3wIV kAZoVGbhyIbNG7fbCEJ8q81TbfsGypV3bRmbZVvGNecBguYiooBtz2Qht1p3itXMkIA6P9pS YDl+6QddZLyUUAjAnFv2QDoYSHLnaDUWw4oONZsB0SKVu8jMIBh4uJZoYEOvdvc9jQQdOpA2 CAgA6ulfm42Ikr9lKBUUCtjqiWAhJ7iXOTyHAIdR4Mf8alCE6tdTq6dHdIt+GktTY7oYNyL2 3aD3C7I5waU0SFXvJcOMG10QLfwYQMOQoYQ9XJ0U5A28WYiDcylDdUWT7SappP1e1ZMeJWWO y14mxxNzHaJSI4rK8P/p5tp3Q7SSC4k5gMh9zKba3K2ApCWNbVLGvXsJeQkZZNvu70tE81ey AHI5iZcB6D7WaHysBUmsKaEpbcmm1ZThTnGL0SHEl5to5Jab5Fg6O+Cnly5sVz5lX/v8Aosx kKNei7SCVqXOVtteQeGxWbXWbhPgbMyc0Gi3DuxBI/yvJ43k/rJysQlLGLWfJx/UXprwLluC PDK9EvKEB+fD1Z349uzp1sKr3ihpySbyKI8fpudftnAz4EsoCwARAQABzSZHcmFoYW0gUGVy cmluIDxncmFoYW1wZXJyaW5AZ21haWwuY29tPsLBlAQTAQoAPhYhBFk/5bLDBwftvJcvCrdn SG9KGNQLBQJoRALAAhsDBQkPEg5ABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAAAoJELdnSG9K GNQL8YkP/2V1z6XQDyG1QlKAu8TuE8zDWy9QQKjC/G44hlu5zk+2kWSNk4zeExs9ZXOBmVhF EW1d+1J8wDiYIeKYj/rqMoP+gb8o0Au0lSRitvTdLxkZBFGMn0CEzlDOzv+wmiy0ggAV/s+Y EbiHk12fI0LoTy5/ywdmG/uGS7M6p3XOrM0YO1qmLXy1cUyYDsYIpq5/rT0QzpGowsJLoEA3 zz1vfKVY+RTorsL4W8ljXLmcs4c3b3HZG9Xmgtt+Ni/eb9CjzM7kCXOcSMnVzvfscCowPAwB 0ZHlNxNV0MTa61xgvOCk4Zf278ArRgbTm4oOz9Z4ciPMnVue+9P/VdxIxgUuYkAryM0+agGz L9bd8ljn+efNtgZ5dlDLrNnTE+vWnMVlMXgl7BNnhwHg7UYFLrC2xklsICub0qpnNheTGeqo 0N4UongJTQJ6H6LEpgd+KMkCncAHghED/G0/BUdO90VEOoqnIKwKa+F9NqVMvHWc8D58mwCP FghsmxK9FM9pnsjLmG7u+s51Y7++GSRnU4NkI4tHiVk7hcAcvZuc0QbUDwVMTurDUgIqRo6W 80j1tFjEspkrwtMoeVFEkDHktjoc3AoEymXIncZfqIqi3nVseyDVyNByvkV0mutX9hXqac0/ RXMuyK9KniAUZ9+gsWs4rPs/DOdsw4K8/RnjduBrfCYQzsFNBGKYt7ABEADRb1tZuh7DPYET 0wK6fe7owbYgM+RfKhmcrGgR2HI9M2q6+0WKF/ITnggWdIW2Ecc4z2boLz/cwvPGCS7/YxZM 61KklGCwuS7q1s04XnHDWHuFxfXQPzAdVmNO3bYoMZbJjHXs6sB2u5ksiwPwaMAWWaGkviSj c5pwvHCiTmX5vH5CBj/Vi+5ESyX38vK4JM5S/m4ouI/6M9biyFgimV+v3vVyCxJCT1gI9g4o GIh1qq5S433b1fihn4yHPf8XOKyBpA/QcwLONViBqJL5nnOxpsh344rNxn2R7CcRzzicOV+e 2IbMem4lwNWQlZKoRotKXZi9LqN5mynSBYqAUdoZum0QinWT9F22B0Qex5PH1zAt9i2W91Vd kcPB3LwkRXj07ycRtsSzpgPA6fLc6AsoWFslHl8kVOO5eJIA4xhjlPa+W8lguQHZ0iX+5uAv 2eAgXR2swADuHPuENNFStmsgAMl8OOOgtq75yA5TpyIzxMuXV9Nmp0VfIaUM/IdLdmxhc1pC c320l5fYMHVLFAReWEbSj2QH8YzWfpXHIegutWWYEbH9SiDXgS9KoKmCJV/Qa+x6/b8y3pOZ vnIbCDaynC2Yr50s8gRa9kb54JE8Z+p8r16U3SEsK3PtUi0RF0e51danCVHrrE6/Hat2XUO/ 6nnYgVgFOrLao6Gh/VMs8wARAQABwsF8BBgBCgAmFiEEWT/lssMHB+28ly8Kt2dIb0oY1AsF AmhEAsACGwwFCQ8SDkAACgkQt2dIb0oY1AvQxw//REWYFK2m4yS/QP5kzfhkWcNqDI/akGT5 /LXmdmbc1s78+mOMXnA4vBY/+X1QatgxWUECkPDOiIwXJMxoBuyY8e7spLRXeyhtfh5aYaJc MO5bARX0c49v+KfZ80u9tG2rkKQvAt/ySo7OXsbDADFFRhlc8RLbb8e7bSctGbYZk9CYa0ya dW5+n3znDNJ6yW1skx9wTH+Y8VlSazRLk3XgXscNqBA2h56v3WS/R5dI++7AQxZxSQacQvfj 9eahq7ATdB4zMQ9MBHEwOvGD3DLlc55FYSDZvNX+mhnK7S0t1Nt2EtGUOmXb5ysMFGnbsce0 woKQ0sLPF1HWDAAf7tBCF8mpPIzU/ViAkupsJ6NYCD0tLFD8pvl0NYU2TjvyWh6ie3e5B/b3 8Daiyme+M92ivfoRQOFKmkPfeT14AI6OW1k7qFbmoIwMWWQdFWAl1CP9hNdF9gRN4rFB0Jy1 90BajZW2zOdVfqdurJZegCzAowZalLm4JEK2MklpPzipibnJqhLOmvJy587pF52KDdM/4rLy BBREIm7uRivnO5k/BY5qS+H/aqv97LC0PVaTsLXbDmTxTnJplUpdlYT9NGidM+x/ioS0iztO Cht7cT8V8jvvKZYvNpst8iqxuIaoV9V7aZ0wAQpkgDGXHmSzwtz6U8xNf/4e4sLn9KPlldSd kvo= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.93 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.93)[-0.930]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20230601]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[grahamperrin]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::32c:from] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV5Jq2PMRz466V X-Spamd-Bar: --- – via (Kory Heard) ＂I wrote a simple secure daemon to comply with California age signal laws. aged, its CLI tool agectl, and the library AgeSignal provide the three components needed to return an age bracket to developers. Both the daemon and the ctl are capability daemons who open a set or resources then retreat to sandboxes.＂ From nobody Mon Mar 9 19:17:24 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fV6GW26Czz6Tm9q for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 19:17:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Received: from mail-pl1-x630.google.com (mail-pl1-x630.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::630]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fV6GV5X3kz3rXw for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 19:17:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from yaneurabeya@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-pl1-x630.google.com with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2ab232cc803so55732585ad.3 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 12:17:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1773083856; x=1773688656; darn=freebsd.org; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=Hi+HZul9uxRDi1cKXd30wV19JVQzGta+z1QAjurG5jQ=; b=aLVkcFc9qzbzGZxM/geZu5WczOu/mtjnVcfajtvgx6jtcrNqhhfTMTZ+MQczFXvkbp 3KK4Uninxk/dOQ2ez65q47OHk0jWf49wBr/n39SKQFRADfMKLJ0OLHnnOQhTmRhpquoP 8M2SsNtwTN+f37P/TFoL9ksYDxI+PSWLbGprCIh47KPg57YUn/G3K59RrpCAtTpKp3R/ IlpzCFoTjw2hr5LIyzPdgG663u6R9zb/um21I65inwrvaPh8zipLeqx+Kh4Ugg00W2+A qQ5fxJk2GvqxPOM/W3sL91Sg34BK7kVxNPn0duRPEYRCf7vszMZj0nCy/QX/GOivU+GF x7cQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1773083856; x=1773688656; h=to:references:message-id:cc:date:in-reply-to:from:subject :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=Hi+HZul9uxRDi1cKXd30wV19JVQzGta+z1QAjurG5jQ=; b=t3hsYNeB8G35IstKTeSpH9TBSHa8ZTeQj2SViuiuDFpwJG7gpIGp4ulc7eqOIgkJC/ +SU4RkuDsVlVo7xqNC2IBFGoU0TiKI65wCscxLgfyTsqTT/JcGnD1tRS62rCGZGF7x8n CciOCX+x7zRj1QHRBzwbU+QOICUmLlmOfzGTTHirBPoIQJ3qAPc/m71csyhpOHLhw+ib MWN5lU9OatAYz2qS1iWcKAJHcOwMxZ8sl95fseBUd8pdRqh1TqOVTuP0SvfWSdnwGcBo wzgo0RvG6PQFE4SGswcvhF2CaE+XYNF5/5KGaSM4wzJBW6ouZsGd7uc5VOrn6vovZxoG 3bSA== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCX7eAO0iAEgbR2ouA38Rw+5ek33U4dCdeZl7Am5iPfPBHlJE0drr5/DSVuj5QbAtTRCCpMGJNum1Wpm5LGkXC0=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyUwu6myNY2HEsEz/O01AuR0xsW4amS+oR2RJnuiSOIPgL+xOzI NFrJmh7gK+EhyeTZL/cGkh5RDoPiTUGhE0vV5uTBH559X7tpHR8Mv+YT X-Gm-Gg: ATEYQzy4UarolGqW+unBQK7feBLLEaYh+nF4Ar3Flc17tmRWlc1uZwIzRVSfncQzQHd pLvHeukRlNjhL8pWzBJY4ygIvPHbApY2zzlcqYbejtRSJ0HJkmQHY+OD/Va1Sy8WB11/7gf8GyL YjYfF1RdbA6opLFmZrSWJFmLupjCgTCSGeEyHftzdAx3uwaSEbxklVQiooyCXv0oU+PLqN5Sj2K 0v6wR4oYKRAcQV6uJ/ZCCmqS58pgSBEsnmA0/B06FauAypXfB+VmaRgljojt7fsbZawYIv/BSFn gsDXDxyZsvSGLg6vAhrZtBYl3P+hCSOUZpPWgncXU+ZbqO73gFyDnOLZ/bYUAFlLPEZYZRD9KBE 6iWJ6eaTNOpIIXf8FQbPmHZLTs7MVF9qUhw9TmOgpQ0F8caE0U4EseyRrnTbSkuVR7YYotVW9Mx 6xxpAjyme8SuiqAw7kNc42IrECbp6ToZ++3uNEk7eB X-Received: by 2002:a17:903:3c4d:b0:2ae:3e4a:3cb8 with SMTP id d9443c01a7336-2ae8249ce25mr131003445ad.53.1773083856121; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 12:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([176.100.43.23]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-2ae840be379sm122764555ad.87.2026.03.09.12.17.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Mar 2026 12:17:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B08EAA5E-5A50-49E0-86E3-B1224C8AC0C9"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81.1.4\)) Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem From: "Enji Cooper (yaneurabeya)" In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 12:17:24 -0700 Cc: vermaden , Vincent Bentley , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" Message-Id: <499C3458-BED3-47FD-A778-B5A17CD79390@gmail.com> References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> To: Warner Losh X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81.1.4) X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV6GV5X3kz3rXw X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --Apple-Mail=_B08EAA5E-5A50-49E0-86E3-B1224C8AC0C9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Mar 9, 2026, at 10:43=E2=80=AFAM, Warner Losh = wrote: >=20 > The man page is wrong. It may be required, but usually isn't.=20 =E2=80=A6 > On Mon, Mar 9, 2026, 11:39=E2=80=AFAM vermaden = wrote: > Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: > - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged It looks like someone wrote an unauthenticated, unencrypted network = daemon that listens on IPv4 and writes to a sqlite3 database that = contains incorrectly calculated user ages. Why in the hell are people even bothering to waste their time and make = more insecure systems when it=E2=80=99s obvious BS that needs to be = pushed back hard on because it has no practical sense in = implementing=E2=80=A6? I=E2=80=99m going to laugh so hard if Linux (or = any other OS distribution) decides that they need to replicate this = pattern of messy PII gathering and future leaking. 1+ extra useless = processes per container because the some idiots in Congress or = Parliament decided it was needed, or listened to lobbyists pushing for = this implementation. Just, no. Politicians who support this are fucking idiots (I don=E2=80=99t= use that phrase lightly), need to be taken out to pasture, and turned = into Soylent Green. -Enji= --Apple-Mail=_B08EAA5E-5A50-49E0-86E3-B1224C8AC0C9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEkHfexGRJ3gYRdA2gGpE5DjPsNJgFAmmvHMQACgkQGpE5DjPs NJiNJQ/+J1b2TWG6S7Li5nbC/Gs/K7PwEdOGQEcyOzNyBOjzeooKal/jyHLuhWGb dH3uix3qKf5oSZ8O4B/jTc+bZx71hwTP19PYi3aI0SXJ1UXDRWs/cMqrLB14DIWi q+QfiiBoXaNKq+mmet7QrswaPLnR7UuKV2/qhw72aMf5tDRuGwA4jS02r8B3lE3W sIfK7uCVtmqr1ZY+OL/W7eP4Q3hqqHoPLYoiFTh06Ga+GeawLM5r5ucutJzpK0ni aaAIMTBABqbL5rGP+kcanaEUegi5+2Hx6yEiXCs9y0quLi4FhgcEmlGEfcRBNj03 RZuxn0g054U/OHqKhCdugi+xzbC+JM0dcbs72GM5+vka8hVfPSd7kiFRyMO3XcsD ipZ94Tlspurm1dhRQPPlaZZAi8NIeuDS7AP72ltkx+HS2z21HXvzanIJefpgACuK KTAabSthXSarnpsQY31OOXZefctWm9ZTwPhQgSJu052cK7uy3rMIu65RJ/t4NtwI 1aOX/NXywq2f+gIvBjxrFsEfcpmU4uB1Oa2ShUTp+b0gcBh43emwNMuIzZdTO9H2 d6kGQc5QCZBKzOeLJVnbLKFcnIQMlGmO9wGAwe/LYBp9oad4EuKXa/5M+ycmWOHF qfWuMvNwn5jQ4bcU2IG87xhSYmyyTct3y9tskccE3/XBaOHlvos= =wudf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B08EAA5E-5A50-49E0-86E3-B1224C8AC0C9-- From nobody Mon Mar 9 19:19:54 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fV6KR6FW7z6TmlQ for ; 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Mon, 09 Mar 2026 12:20:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple ([176.100.43.23]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d9443c01a7336-2ae83e78f77sm173984475ad.21.2026.03.09.12.20.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 09 Mar 2026 12:20:04 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B4A01CC4-81BE-4EB2-BCE1-90D4F34BD944"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81.1.4\)) Subject: Re: FreeBSDKit aged, agectl, AgeSignal From: "Enji Cooper (yaneurabeya)" In-Reply-To: <84eed8be-3dbb-40aa-91fb-bf46929dc486@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 12:19:54 -0700 Cc: freebsd-hackers Message-Id: <63465B82-57F8-4BDF-A8B6-936FBC5E7D75@gmail.com> References: <84eed8be-3dbb-40aa-91fb-bf46929dc486@gmail.com> To: Graham Perrin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81.1.4) X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV6KR4Dmvz3sjv X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --Apple-Mail=_B4A01CC4-81BE-4EB2-BCE1-90D4F34BD944 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Mar 9, 2026, at 11:34=E2=80=AFAM, Graham Perrin = wrote: >=20 > >=20 > =E2=80=93 via = = (Kory Heard) >=20 > =EF=BC=82I wrote a simple secure daemon to comply with California age = signal laws. aged, its CLI tool agectl, and the library AgeSignal = provide the three components needed to return an age bracket to = developers. Both the daemon and the ctl are capability daemons who open = a set or resources then retreat to sandboxes.=EF=BC=82 >=20 > Written in Swift, not C/C++=E2=80=A6 we don=E2=80=99t bundle Swift with = the base system. -Enji= --Apple-Mail=_B4A01CC4-81BE-4EB2-BCE1-90D4F34BD944 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCAAdFiEEkHfexGRJ3gYRdA2gGpE5DjPsNJgFAmmvHVoACgkQGpE5DjPs NJgLdg/9GrTg1OZZDsPcqMMnEZASBBvtQ4qVGLRWBT/C59m3tnqx2KpTkxE1unWt L4/tfxMx2lDm1GLvte2ljr2RbpBkZzzX1GPTSzAsXO8vT/pnlCfaP6EnuGT2IVY7 Neqa9a5yaYk6zbQ8chPusHgjtOTMBOg74VKhxb7Y+aLVNAdsgiA74MJ5bXWNh86P X5MyoCzx14V5hSpHQhjWN9QIw0FOJhEid4G4Eghiyd2GYb1CLbyA2KvnSQa+AyyE tFQkcpwMWx4CBR0SnIR1Al2MFkwdu2/aZ/Airryl5EMM7Jsoaupe1+ufzFVW3WkL TIOH7HavIzdVBDR6Z2/IH/g8jBFShta1eRSftJTT04q+eB/HPuBmris7JuP20R2S eB8gbmRgcspezELh+TGYn6vXLVTOL3eBJl3HfFmBWBcSdGOYMRo1pz4NvQ/2PkjE 87vKSPPIO/UbRx4CoTd78yKUus47j05Gg10lRKAVMIQkoB6v3GkLacPvYj57pYIA xFHpNex/1YcxR4M4Va9/6ktjRFnZ7ZIcArQwGok5XRqL68iR5RjcBVAVT3p8EIJa YeOAizztXfVMJLPVbGHqZEC8K9duEy8AqTpAIpSlOSMMWylUvLnB6R66Itczp5Y7 u7BHKVBlnoX7BtEd/hch0uQDSv7BFS0MM+l92ur2YsQgByJCfEk= =/Mcg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_B4A01CC4-81BE-4EB2-BCE1-90D4F34BD944-- From nobody Mon Mar 9 19:33:32 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fV6d72g97z6TpG9 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 19:33:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Received: from mailhost.m5p.com (mailhost.m5p.com [74.104.188.4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "m5p.com", Issuer "R12" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fV6d55n1Gz3x51 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 19:33:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of george+freebsd@m5p.com designates 74.104.188.4 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=george+freebsd@m5p.com Received: from [IPV6:2001:470:8ac4::26] (court.m5p.com [IPv6:2001:470:8ac4:0:0:0:0:26]) (authenticated bits=0) by mailhost.m5p.com (8.18.1/8.17.1) with ESMTPSA id 629JXW1V060278 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:33:38 -0400 (EDT) (envelope-from george+freebsd@m5p.com) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:33:32 -0400 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: FreeBSDKit aged, agectl, AgeSignal To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org References: <84eed8be-3dbb-40aa-91fb-bf46929dc486@gmail.com> <63465B82-57F8-4BDF-A8B6-936FBC5E7D75@gmail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: George Mitchell Autocrypt: addr=george+freebsd@m5p.com; 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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID ded00c1ae12c4c4836bd87529eff0eca; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 20:46:27 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 21:46:23 +0100 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Brazilian problem To: vermaden , Vincent Bentley , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> Content-Language: en-US From: Mikhail Zakharov In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.25198 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.81 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.81)[-0.805]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[interia.pl,vincentbentley.co.uk,freebsd.org,FreeBSD.org]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.83:from]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[4]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.83:from]; HAS_WP_URI(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fV8F8599fz3GXM X-Spamd-Bar: --- I'm unsure if all those legislation initiatives will be implemented, anyway, what's about having a dirty hack to store age in the comment field of passwd? Something simple like below: getage() {     username="$1"     pw usershow $username -7 |         awk -F ':' '$5 {split($5, gecos, ","); print(gecos[5])}' } setage() {     username="$1"     userbirth="$2"     gecos=$(pw usershow $username -7 |         awk -F ':' '$5 {split($5, gecos, ","); printf("%s,%s,%s,%s,", gecos[1], gecos[2], gecos[3], gecos[4])}')"$userbirth"     pw usermod $username -c "$gecos" } All the best, Mike On 3/5/2026 3:39 PM, vermaden wrote: > The 'thesmartski' from X implemented some simple workaround: > - https://x.com/thesmartski/status/2029116808066646416 > > Regards, > vermaden > > > > Temat: Practical suggestions for resolving the Brazilian problem > Data: 2026-03-05 13:32 > Nadawca: "Vincent Bentley" <vince@vincentbentley.co.uk> > Adresat: freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; > >>> Originally posted to forum: >> https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/practical-suggestions-for-resolving-the-brazilian-problem.101913/#post-748010 >> >> I am not conversant in Portuguese so I don't know if this is already >> being discussed on the Brazilian list. I apologise if this is already >> being dealt with. >> >> On March 17, 2026 the Brazilian government will be enforcing a new law >> that requires age verification of the users of a computer operating >> system. This thread is to discuss how the FreeBSD developers could >> resolve this problem within the next 11 days. Please add your own ideas >> and pick apart any/all that have been posted. >> >> Summary in English >> https://fpf.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/12/Issue-Brief-Brazils-Digital-ECA.pdf >> >> 1. Geo-block Brazil from image downloads and from pkg repositories. >> This is an extreme solution that will alienate the Brazilian user >> community, but it is the quickest to achieve given the lack of time. >> >> 2. Modify pkg so that it can accurately geo-locate by the public IP address. >> If a Brazilian IP address is detected, pkg requests the email address of >> a human installer over the age of 18 that is responsible for the system. >> Pkg will no longer install or update until a token received by email >> from pkgtoken@freebsd.org is entered into pkg. >> >> Pkg will also have to state on every execution that the FreeBSD package >> repo is for 18+ users only and it is the responsibility of the system >> administrator not to permit use of the system by minors. All existing >> FreeBSD systems will remain usable in a pre-enforcement date state. >> However, they will not be able to update until the sysadmin confirms to >> pkg that the system is for 18+ users only. If the public IP address >> changes, pkg will have to request a new authorisation token to continue. >> This is the only way to deal with geo-locating dynamic IP or portable >> systems that are travelling (visiting laptops). >> >> The authorisation token does not need to be individual to the machine. >> A simple method of using a token matching the last 8-bits of an IPv4 or >> IPv6 address is good enough. Every quarter, regenerate those 256 tokens >> and save them on a private system area of the package repo. An already >> authorised pkg will automatically rollover to the new token without >> human intervention. Yes, someone could map the bit to token > assignments >> every quarter and publish them, but the new pkg program must save the >> email address and display it every time pkg is run. Whoever runs > package >> will see the email address that was used to obtain the token. >> >> If a fake email address is used with published tokens, then the >> Brazilian authorities have the problem of identifying the sysadmin and >> the token publisher. The sysadmin becomes the criminal. >> >> Pkg gets updated every quarter to recognise the new set of 256 tokens >> used by the FreeBSD repo. If pkg is used in Brazil without a valid > token >> it fails safe (legally, not functionally) by not updating and not >> installing software until a sysadmin has submitted an email address to >> receive an unlock token. >> >> If pkg is used against a private repo, such as a Poudriere built repo, >> then no email address or token checking is required. Whoever operates >> the Poudriere repo is the software distributor. >> >> -Vince- >> >> From nobody Mon Mar 9 22:12:08 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVB826sslz6V2JJ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 22:12:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVB8249qkz3Tm0; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 22:12:18 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 629MC8eZ066036; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 15:12:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1773094335; x=1773094935; r=y; bh=Og41PnalDAkeDr6Yf3hC0qs2nauruxIrqxcdX8KmK8g=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=fK1pHQdF4AagW/KfAupMAdLADe/zPsuvJeEGkfiOo0b/63Wq0ucdFMdRA1anjLJ/L BraVolDyI6iUc09mLaMHXad6njFqh9fRR954WegyLZdOgSEZQp46aaTqIpHkJl04M+ Fd5uS0Dz5boF0DbhResGb94EkmHOYR64g49ZW/locyz4d/NoUa6Kw3UZORRNTp702Z YH6IKRz0axpG44JqIgGmCQqnfWlehM5ZZbku1m5ksyycd0JoLmM1eYkURyJjKS8peN G49+S+HjGO2wgRbVT8YiwieDVL133MP0aVmKpyAxqnu0bTuDNPGEpQwYsYNL5pm+9V nfzAen5hnSHLA== List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 09 Mar 2026 15:12:08 -0700 From: Chris To: vermaden Cc: Warner Losh , Vincent Bentley , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem In-Reply-To: References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_7b67335ff141c0e569d4833d73567461" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVB8249qkz3Tm0 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --=_7b67335ff141c0e569d4833d73567461 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 2026-03-09 10:39, vermaden wrote: > Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: > - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged While I think the initiative as written is untenable (unenforceable) Wouldn't it be enough to write an additional field to adduser(8) say; born / over 13? Then allow ports to use it as they so choose? It's a dead simple approach w/ near zero work/overhead. > > Regards, > vermaden --Chris --=_7b67335ff141c0e569d4833d73567461 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 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cmVfYmxvY2siPg0KICAgIDxkaXYgY2xhc3M9InByb3Rvbm1haWxfc2lnbmF0dXJlX2Jsb2NrLXVz ZXIiPg0KICAgICAgICA8ZGl2PjxzcGFuIHN0eWxlPSJsaW5lLWhlaWdodDogbm9ybWFsOyBmb250 LWZhbWlseTogQXJpYWwsIHNhbnMtc2VyaWY7IGZvbnQtc2l6ZTogMTRweDsgZm9udC13ZWlnaHQ6 IDQwMDsiPi0tPC9zcGFuPjwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PHNwYW4gc3R5bGU9ImxpbmUtaGVpZ2h0OiBub3Jt YWw7IGZvbnQtZmFtaWx5OiBBcmlhbCwgc2Fucy1zZXJpZjsgZm9udC1zaXplOiAxNHB4OyBmb250 LXdlaWdodDogNDAwOyI+TWluc29vIENob288L3NwYW4+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+PC9kaXY+ --b1=_nvgxUrdCxb9TKTsdnCW8mkdWYy0fGHoeWCzpG3NLFw-- From nobody Mon Mar 9 23:36:50 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVD1g6n63z6V8J2 for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@portsmon.org) Received: from MTA-10-3.privateemail.com (mta-10-3.privateemail.com [198.54.127.62]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVD1g40wCz3hXv for ; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 23:36:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from linimon@portsmon.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from mta-10.privateemail.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mta-10.privateemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVD1c3nXTz3hhcs; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 19:36:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from APP-09 (unknown [10.50.14.159]) by mta-10.privateemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Mon, 9 Mar 2026 19:36:50 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 18:36:50 -0500 (CDT) From: Mark Linimon To: "Enji Cooper (yaneurabeya)" , Graham Perrin Cc: freebsd-hackers Message-ID: <128084957.2386148.1773099410398@privateemail.com> In-Reply-To: <63465B82-57F8-4BDF-A8B6-936FBC5E7D75@gmail.com> References: <84eed8be-3dbb-40aa-91fb-bf46929dc486@gmail.com> <63465B82-57F8-4BDF-A8B6-936FBC5E7D75@gmail.com> Subject: Re: FreeBSDKit aged, agectl, AgeSignal 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4fb4d7f45d1cf-6619d4e374emr6396302a12.21.1773099415475; Mon, 09 Mar 2026 16:36:55 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Rick Macklem Date: Mon, 9 Mar 2026 16:36:43 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AaiRm53enl7du2I3GxhXSNITUlNRiv_AUMijDMNH36sLI5KdiGPr-3DDvJSrHQo Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Ms-nfs41-client-devel] FreeBSD-16.0-CURRENT-amd64-20260224: NFSv4.2 on Windows: mkdir fails, touch works To: Roland Mainz Cc: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org, ms-nfs41-client-devel@lists.sourceforge.net Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000cfd7de064c9fe0ab" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVD1p1nQ2z3hbM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --000000000000cfd7de064c9fe0ab Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 9, 2026 at 9:43=E2=80=AFAM Roland Mainz wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2026 at 10:28=E2=80=AFPM Rick Macklem wrote: > > > > On Sat, Mar 7, 2026 at 9:27=E2=80=AFAM Dan Shelton wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > some odd issue with FreeBSD 16.0-CURRENT main-n284403-895a97c875a0 > > > (installed from > > > FreeBSD-16.0-CURRENT-amd64-20260224-16822dac32ab-284159-disc1.iso) an= d > > > ms-nfs41-client: > > > $ /sbin/nfs_mount -o rw 'F:' 'nfs://42.28.16.228//nfsdata' > > > Successfully mounted '42.28.16.228@NFS@2049' to drive 'F:' > > > $ cd /cygdrive/f/dsheldon/tmp/freebsdtests > > > > > > $ touch x > > > $ mkdir y_dir > > > mkdir: cannot create directory =E2=80=98y_dir=E2=80=99: Permission de= nied > > > > > > I tried this: > > > $ chmod a+rwx . > > > $ mkdir y_dir > > > mkdir: cannot create directory =E2=80=98y_dir=E2=80=99: Permission de= nied > > > > > > > > > No ACLs involved. > > > The same setup works with FreeBSD 15.0. > > > > > > How can I debug this, or is this a known issue? > > Hmm. I don't think anything has changed for mkdir between > > 15.0 and man/16 in the NFS server code. Yep, the change was that FreeBSD16 supports Archive, but didn't handle setting it when doing a CREATE operation. > > > > - If the mkdir request (actually MKNOD in NFSv4) specifies > > an owner or owner_group, the permissions are checked as follows: > > - For setting owner to anything other than the uid of the caller in > > the RPC request's credentials, the caller must be root and the > > file system exported -maproot=3Droot. > > - For setting an owner_group, the gid owner_group maps to must > > be in the gid list of the RPC's credentials. > > > > I'd suggest you capture packets when the mkdir fails and then.. > > - Either look at them in wireshark yourself and see what attributes > > are being set by the operation. In particular, check for any ACL > > being specified (I know you said ACLs are not involved, but..) > > along with OWNER and OWNER_GROUP. > > or > > - Make the packet capture available to me and I'll look at it. > > > > I suspect the NFS4ERR_PERM is being generated because of > > the attributes being set by the MKNOD operation and I suspect > > there is some difference between how you have 15.0 configured > > and main/16 configured. > [snip] > > It seems to be an issue with |FATTR4_ARCHIVE| ... I filed > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D293691 ("NFSv4.1 > client trying to set |FATTR4_ARCHIVE| gets EPERM for file/dir creation > attempts") for this, and added > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=3D292283 ("Bug 292283 > - (JAVA) NFSv4.1 client trying to set FATTR4_SYSTEM or FATTR4_HIDDEN > gets EPERM for file and dir creation attemps") as reference since the > same kind of workaround seems to work. > > Next release for ms-nfs41-client includes a workaround (see > https://github.com/kofemann/ms-nfs41-client/commit/7156d9f9deb25843e57fd4= 55d8ec67951b82c737) > which should avoid this bug, but I will remove that workaround as soon > as a fixed release version of FreeBSD will become available... I've put a patch on this FreeBSD PR and am attaching it here. I will commit it soon to main and MFC it in time for the FreeBSD-15.1 release. I think you'll find that, for a main (FreeBSD-16) server, Open/Create does handle Archive. rick > > ---- > > Bye, > Roland > -- > __ . . __ > (o.\ \/ /.o) roland.mainz@nrubsig.org > \__\/\/__/ MPEG specialist, C&&JAVA&&Sun&&Unix programmer > /O /=3D=3D\ O\ TEL +49 641 3992797 > (;O/ \/ \O;) > --000000000000cfd7de064c9fe0ab Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="mkdirflags.patch" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="mkdirflags.patch" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: X-Attachment-Id: f_mmjtl1yk0 LS0tIHN5cy9mcy9uZnNzZXJ2ZXIvbmZzX25mc2RzZXJ2LmMubWtkaXJmbGFncwkyMDI2LTAzLTA5 IDE0OjEwOjQ4LjUzNzM4MDAwMCAtMDcwMAorKysgc3lzL2ZzL25mc3NlcnZlci9uZnNfbmZzZHNl cnYuYwkyMDI2LTAzLTA5IDE2OjA2OjA3LjM0Mjk2ODAwMCAtMDcwMApAQCAtMTQxNiwxMiArMTQx NiwxMyBAQCBuZnNydmRfbWtub2Qoc3RydWN0IG5mc3J2X2Rlc2NyaXB0ICpuZCwgX191bnVzZWQg aW50IGkKIAl2bm9kZV90IHZwLCBkaXJwID0gTlVMTDsKIAluZnNhdHRyYml0X3QgYXR0cmJpdHM7 CiAJY2hhciAqYnVmcCA9IE5VTEwsICpwYXRoY3AgPSBOVUxMOwotCXVfbG9uZyAqaGFzaHAsIGNu ZmxhZ3M7CisJdV9sb25nICpoYXNocCwgY25mbGFncywgc2V0ZmxhZ3M7CiAJTkZTQUNMX1QgKmFj bHAgPSBOVUxMOwogCXN0cnVjdCB0aHJlYWQgKnAgPSBjdXJ0aHJlYWQ7CiAKIAlORlNWTk9fQVRU UklOSVQoJm52YSk7CiAJY25mbGFncyA9IExPQ0tQQVJFTlQ7CisJc2V0ZmxhZ3MgPSAodV9sb25n KVZOT1ZBTDsKIAlpZiAobmQtPm5kX3JlcHN0YXQpIHsKIAkJbmZzcnZfd2NjKG5kLCBkaXJmb3Jf cmV0LCAmZGlyZm9yLCBkaXJhZnRfcmV0LCAmZGlyYWZ0KTsKIAkJZ290byBvdXQ7CkBAIC0xNTc2 LDkgKzE1NzcsMTYgQEAgbmZzcnZkX21rbm9kKHN0cnVjdCBuZnNydl9kZXNjcmlwdCAqbmQsIF9f dW51c2VkIGludCBpCiAJCX0KIAl9CiAKKwkvKiBGb3IgTkZTdjQsIHNldCBuYV9mbGFncyB2aWEg bmZzcnZfZml4YXR0cigpLiAqLworCWlmIChuZC0+bmRfZmxhZyAmIE5EX05GU1Y0KSB7CisJCXNl dGZsYWdzID0gbnZhLm5hX2ZsYWdzOworCQludmEubmFfZmxhZ3MgPSBWTk9WQUw7CisJfQogCW5k LT5uZF9yZXBzdGF0ID0gbmZzdm5vX21rbm9kKCZuYW1lZCwgJm52YSwgbmQtPm5kX2NyZWQsIHAp OwogCWlmICghbmQtPm5kX3JlcHN0YXQpIHsKIAkJdnAgPSBuYW1lZC5uaV92cDsKKwkJaWYgKG5k LT5uZF9mbGFnICYgTkRfTkZTVjQpCisJCQludmEubmFfZmxhZ3MgPSBzZXRmbGFnczsKIAkJbmZz cnZfZml4YXR0cihuZCwgdnAsICZudmEsIGFjbHAsIHAsICZhdHRyYml0cywgZmFsc2UpOwogCQlu ZC0+bmRfcmVwc3RhdCA9IG5mc3Zub19nZXRmaCh2cCwgZmhwLCBwKTsKIAkJaWYgKChuZC0+bmRf ZmxhZyAmIE5EX05GU1YzKSAmJiAhbmQtPm5kX3JlcHN0YXQpCkBAIC0yMDg0LDEwICsyMDkyLDE0 IEBAIG5mc3J2ZF9zeW1saW5rc3ViKHN0cnVjdCBuZnNydl9kZXNjcmlwdCAqbmQsIHN0cnVjdCBu YQogICAgIGludCBwYXRobGVuKQogewogCXVfaW50MzJfdCAqdGw7CisJdV9sb25nIHNldGZsYWdz OwogCisJc2V0ZmxhZ3MgPSBudmFwLT5uYV9mbGFnczsKKwludmFwLT5uYV9mbGFncyA9ICh1X2xv bmcpVk5PVkFMOwogCW5kLT5uZF9yZXBzdGF0ID0gbmZzdm5vX3N5bWxpbmsobmRwLCBudmFwLCBw YXRoY3AsIHBhdGhsZW4sCiAJICAgICEobmQtPm5kX2ZsYWcgJiBORF9ORlNWMiksIG5kLT5uZF9z YXZlZHVpZCwgbmQtPm5kX2NyZWQsIHAsIGV4cCk7CiAJaWYgKCFuZC0+bmRfcmVwc3RhdCAmJiAh KG5kLT5uZF9mbGFnICYgTkRfTkZTVjIpKSB7CisJCW52YXAtPm5hX2ZsYWdzID0gc2V0ZmxhZ3M7 CiAJCW5mc3J2X2ZpeGF0dHIobmQsIG5kcC0+bmlfdnAsIG52YXAsIGFjbHAsIHAsIGF0dHJiaXRw LCBmYWxzZSk7CiAJCWlmIChuZC0+bmRfZmxhZyAmIE5EX05GU1YzKSB7CiAJCQluZC0+bmRfcmVw c3RhdCA9IG5mc3Zub19nZXRmaChuZHAtPm5pX3ZwLCBmaHAsIHApOwpAQCAtMjIxNiwxMiArMjIy OCwxNiBAQCBuZnNydmRfbWtkaXJzdWIoc3RydWN0IG5mc3J2X2Rlc2NyaXB0ICpuZCwgc3RydWN0 IG5hbWUKIHsKIAl2bm9kZV90IHZwOwogCXVfaW50MzJfdCAqdGw7CisJdV9sb25nIHNldGZsYWdz OwogCisJc2V0ZmxhZ3MgPSBudmFwLT5uYV9mbGFnczsKKwludmFwLT5uYV9mbGFncyA9ICh1X2xv bmcpVk5PVkFMOwogCU5GU1ZOT19TRVRBVFRSVkFMKG52YXAsIHR5cGUsIFZESVIpOwogCW5kLT5u ZF9yZXBzdGF0ID0gbmZzdm5vX21rZGlyKG5kcCwgbnZhcCwgbmQtPm5kX3NhdmVkdWlkLAogCSAg ICBuZC0+bmRfY3JlZCwgcCwgZXhwKTsKIAlpZiAoIW5kLT5uZF9yZXBzdGF0KSB7CiAJCXZwID0g bmRwLT5uaV92cDsKKwkJbnZhcC0+bmFfZmxhZ3MgPSBzZXRmbGFnczsKIAkJbmZzcnZfZml4YXR0 cihuZCwgdnAsIG52YXAsIGFjbHAsIHAsIGF0dHJiaXRwLCBmYWxzZSk7CiAJCW5kLT5uZF9yZXBz dGF0ID0gbmZzdm5vX2dldGZoKHZwLCBmaHAsIHApOwogCQlpZiAoIShuZC0+bmRfZmxhZyAmIE5E X05GU1Y0KSAmJiAhbmQtPm5kX3JlcHN0YXQpCg== --000000000000cfd7de064c9fe0ab-- From nobody Tue Mar 10 07:44:40 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVQrl11Smz6V63K for ; 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Tue, 10 Mar 2026 00:44:51 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> In-Reply-To: From: Michael Schuster Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 08:44:40 +0100 X-Gm-Features: AaiRm51NFO83JoMKKQApjy-e7VNuCHaDHGLD5H0cHW00QDwi-BuiJ7FwubHgO44 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem To: Chris Cc: vermaden , Warner Losh , Vincent Bentley , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cd286c064ca6b179" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVQrk67M5z3bQT X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --000000000000cd286c064ca6b179 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Mon, Mar 9, 2026 at 11:13=E2=80=AFPM Chris wrot= e: > On 2026-03-09 10:39, vermaden wrote: > > Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: > > - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged > > While I think the initiative as written is untenable (unenforceable) > Wouldn't it be enough to write an additional field to adduser(8) > say; born / over 13? Then allow ports to use it as they so choose? > It's a dead simple approach w/ near zero work/overhead. > Speaking as a "naive" user and developer: Where would you want to store that information? the GECOS field is known nearly universally, you can't just change it, it'd break ... lots ot stuff. Besides: storing people's age in a publicly visible place probably wouldn't fly with many people, esp in the EU. regars Michael > > > > Regards, > > vermaden > > --Chris --=20 Michael Schuster http://recursiveramblings.wordpress.com/ recursion, n: see 'recursion' --000000000000cd286c064ca6b179 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mon, Mar 9, 2026 at 11:13=E2=80=AFPM Chris <bsd-lists@bsdforge.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">On 2026-03-09 10:39, verma= den wrote:
> Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here:
> - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/sr= c/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged

While I think the initiative as written is untenable (unenforceable)
Wouldn't it be enough to write an additional field to adduser(8)
say; born / over 13? Then allow ports to use it as they so choose?
It's a dead simple approach w/ near zero work/overhead.

Speaking as a "naive" use= r and developer:
Where would you want to stor= e that information? the GECOS field is known nearly universally, you can= 9;t just change it, it'd break ... lots ot stuff.=C2=A0

Besides: storing people's age in = a publicly visible place probably wouldn't fly with many people, esp in= the EU.

regars
<= div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif= ;font-size:small">Michael


>
> Regards,
> vermaden

--Chris


--
recursion, n: see 'recursion'=
--000000000000cd286c064ca6b179-- From nobody Tue Mar 10 09:39:12 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVTNp0lQFz6VGPP; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 09:39:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Received: from udns.ultimatedns.net (udns.ultimatedns.net [24.113.41.81]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "ultimatedns.net", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVTNn4ygTz3p0m; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 09:39:21 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from ultimatedns.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by udns.ultimatedns.net (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 62A9dDeW060862; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 02:39:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from bsd-lists@bsdforge.com) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=bsdforge.com; s=bsdforge; t=1773135559; x=1773136159; r=y; bh=9n3k2mZgAJV4694VMlym0FSz08xAyPMGkcJPNBgFao0=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=pElrvaMBuxJBI2rOW7KeUD0gVISroOwF9Jctcl/L+qNFujE6kB6GptXwRSN/Mv8zG /MJ6Oztaf+AxCb8Ufs3GXUas4ZbiDZLnOfN8dcdq9xP8UnH3+OmSz1xfQYlRUV7CCi 6t0m3kcXy18bhuq3qgd3QkfTHoFfDzYKR2OCdg2uyAQix/8HoMV2iwNwklNBII5TwB /tOSn9hpAErk8F5vBqylOzutTAeVXj1ZYUQgVnExgR/zSVlua26yyXovqx4MoZszBO vO9AvQGhsxS877Y6fmQwNSh26hy2aCfMNIzFd5rufkIwFhXfMxNVrtCHFYl/WwJHGS TtPzLYTO102kA== List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 02:39:12 -0700 From: Chris To: Michael Schuster Cc: vermaden , Warner Losh , Vincent Bentley , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem In-Reply-To: References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> User-Agent: UDNSMS/17.0 Message-ID: <17977bb140d10505168a9af142dc09c8@bsdforge.com> X-Sender: bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_b3c3a91b42bdb7a3db8d9d417b3a5cde" X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:11404, ipnet:24.113.0.0/16, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVTNn4ygTz3p0m X-Spamd-Bar: ---- --=_b3c3a91b42bdb7a3db8d9d417b3a5cde Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 2026-03-10 00:44, Michael Schuster wrote: > On Mon, Mar 9, 2026 at 11:13 PM Chris wrote: > >> On 2026-03-09 10:39, vermaden wrote: >> > Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: >> > - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged >> >> While I think the initiative as written is untenable (unenforceable) >> Wouldn't it be enough to write an additional field to adduser(8) >> say; born / over 13? Then allow ports to use it as they so choose? >> It's a dead simple approach w/ near zero work/overhead. >> > > Speaking as a "naive" user and developer: > Where would you want to store that information? the GECOS field is known > nearly universally, you can't just change it, it'd break ... lots ot stuff. > > Besides: storing people's age in a publicly visible place probably wouldn't > fly with many people, esp in the EU. I was thinking more on the lines of permissions of different users in the same way their regulated already. Adding another category and applying appropriate perms to match. It basically changes nothing in the way a system regulates user categories now. I was simply suggesting adding another (age based) category. Perms can be set accordingly. Seemed like an painless possibility. Maybe I'm over/under thinking it? > > regars > Michael > > >> > >> > Regards, >> > vermaden >> >> --Chris --Chris --=_b3c3a91b42bdb7a3db8d9d417b3a5cde Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name=0xE512722F.asc Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=0xE512722F.asc; size=3074 -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- mQENBGf/G0IBCADARuJc6IcwOe3jv7dQsP1X/EIHvCFExPbTmlMNFMXbMMccQUnV o8ayEn+wmTvPhw7uL3PDk7DQs16W1sN2b8UMFc804cVWNGtoG3rA+Np+TFEYlXJx eh5Q42VHptkuwzHKl+q2utkpRlS7uHyfjsInQAoHxLyi/wrsaZTHHhDbLLhJ5Ez0 arohQ2Q1w0M5e9rW8Fy5rpC7RpC6uO1SZMxcbdqURI/BBqxbiD1iW62cDWFkfFX+ dtaEXghFV7BIBMDSrgIunGoEfdMZgXys7O6bPWn8z0cuOZIPj4HrjoCYARyQ+sdc rjz/k06SLM/UvEZDorJhT4DbYrwMNvaPWJiPABEBAAG0HkNocmlzIDxic2QtbGlz dHNAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBNQQQAQgAHwUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgEC GQECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci8bSwf/fK3QcTYXRMrv82HIp4SiGCSD7/bRmyWr ipv2vzknGFHxPBN4AEWIqF/U4j5oDXaodyU6xsy59Z47/lgbyzyZiVR6nmJVgZVf el/EgwnLt7ZuYGLLEhIN2pd9itJkB8PMPZrUHMWgIw8BxX5YFYGuyiNe9pGn0Coj 98t/v3fouhqksH+BpB4TBHJBBDSxSiMm66VTJX4Xcnpf0ZnQVP4GBuoyodnFBfdI wqftPLESsCC08lUhD2j7v2NRWwMi/q3ed8D6VCKPImBByYnBZL5gu56K5bwqaQfN itu06APuIYnG71qxgn1EPO63lovWP5NZGgOKvzs3K+JfPF79BiOUFbQjQ2hyaXMg PG1haWxvcEBocmNvbW11bmljYXRpb25zLm5ldD6JATEEEAEIABwFAmf/G0IGCwkH CAMCBBUICgIDFgIBAhsDAh4BAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvBH8H9RGwzZuU6+zvH1WjQa97 yWpEt9rC+BIBJThev2Cpls2LqBqIeIQVZPnyLAZWgFaiezL6+xbvcNt6OnfidIYa x8iRwCMC6/Bs8H2Wef9qfGxXi+jHPLYQk3juiZVmBhIK6FJZkzaW4wSiawofwzbp zqNxO8dZ0j4foaJZrNi8iqsvKjiiHoSFaJtumIThAeydI18CNLeFaS53sk5nad6I wCYeFKmJ/22dMP7DOFEgyG1iNYgY+AGREMkEsBiLpqYjJ5asK+1UdUy/TRly1hOt HHxCiX0Fh9ZYM2vLIj7sq4LKaMPGeYC3qTqBYugVeyz7LkiI2ft/BKveA5JxuYKk ZrQiQ2hyaXMgPG5hbm9nQGhyY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbnMubmV0PokBMgQQAQgAHAUC Z/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci+4Bwf8D0Ogk2/X ud/CsAgHozwzKPqfesL5SRWM14hLnU9/EHoplnZgNexbVY1wXIi2FYPo5cve9QxW Nmt3S3UTF9j2fGqv0wmeHv3EqogFUHnftLyWpbeTPOFDMIQp/BOD6ygfeXxXWxRT L6zvUkSrDtHvkQHPWGRxwP+ihWjpw9AQR/R4/qAuTAZZM0O7UnJEo4mWXatl+utF wegG2giwFTTxfF+1rMpFtUDjYCpRQ6ZmE+gC1mHUMoH7GJMQv12DbqwKrxtwGfd0 AJNO3ZDnxl24BmIfl1YqQGZQ5iIH7At4YItESbU45hoNNsG9oDrsil78EUCAtXHd UPScj+eXaeAkgrQfQ2hyaXMgPHBvcnRtYXN0ZXJAYnNkZm9yZ2UuY29tPokBMgQQ AQgAHAUCZ/8bQgYLCQcIAwIEFQgKAgMWAgECGwMCHgEACgkQVKBqaOUSci9o7Af+ Lwu5hJlI5HZNGwAll7QTIFZVW+y4OEg+amhxTDGbAAqlnSIkHC1KgkmIOOrThme3 kTFCqfIIsuP73yKxHq6kRG0zH5/7asAPNAUOfzD7B2o/gMyuTRKyG5r9f3UmACr4 6qvtFhIwROXr6+NNT2IKg3l0/8F58A0N/TR8D2PTHeo4x6jYcZQDCrCy7BAdk3cu V16k4z/1UzRa07b5McezbWL20cIaZ+dqNcCjKZpzPlTyTCGgrNNtaDpNVhoWUKMB YNcKql+tfC1IpX8l+IU6OBKcDKMkQojvO1QrZqY8MDJGo8jq/CtotQ8+IpAai3Bx dQEsxrxlcKTR4rUqvd8VGbkBDQRn/xtCAQgAv5Nv/aQN72xsLik+K73PJwpUmyhu vnI6stM6dSecylXVHjZ7C4n/m0eQEeQCl+9lByHR9N8H+WS3DtAd4pmciiIxRQLA JZiuaLYcy9ziy1h7130VoR7hhJHzo9FIhWkTGlCDX3egUZrYhMiwFUO8lNltLB8o TBvIrMSsnUzawtQjq/otv0Jf+oBPbG+gIYnAm7w6r86n/l+eVxf5eEoS7wV0DJfp b2jE5zWErWk8I/tq4e8T+1VQeVQR6wz+NrUCSxkPkpNAm19AFUHOk//yvMGWVlDW F6gr3ErN2a0w/kZ0lz3Msxsb87QT+MnJf/T3cuEqdTIoSk74BfNEAdMohQARAQAB iQEfBBgBCAAJBQJn/xtCAhsMAAoJEFSgamjlEnIvyvIH/26zytSVNDaxtprg7XtX LerIWf9RyVx8omCw/lXKRCcgkfwD7QR+nSZ0thWOGMpcnivjuReeVRkz/webUF47 BXJ/Tge07nrxdtyTIHBbp35fPIriaKaII6YWc2Ufdxwv+cD8PADS6gQWAlgrWLmn VmYtyHs4kwtiPZyUyuBdWnZal2GyYY0WVwYjvbk95eInwOaIdoTjesJ7ZhUFu155 r4hh9GlvM0uv8WJ5Mw9wvHa5fIM205I5g0IWC7yvTwwwKHlV4JQQOqMwfv569OEl 1GKqA12nSVziB1+UV+I0NqOABWi/MOi+IySPzYP+XgdPfRNx4vmoHYZwWOQ3t4Jd TEM= =oj6y -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- --=_b3c3a91b42bdb7a3db8d9d417b3a5cde-- From nobody Tue Mar 10 12:28:20 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVY7y4XkQz6VZSm for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:28:30 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:7400:8808:12:4:0:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVY7y1rnZz4M0M for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:28:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Catflap-Envelope-From: X-Catflap-Envelope-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 62ACSKYK074331; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:28:21 GMT (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id 62ACSKxx074330; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:28:20 GMT (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <202603101228.62ACSKxx074330@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:28:20 +0000 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: michaelsprivate@gmail.com, bsd-lists@bsdforge.com Cc: vince@vincentbentley.co.uk, vermaden@interia.pl, imp@bsdimp.com, freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> <17977bb140d10505168a9af142dc09c8@bsdforge.com> In-Reply-To: <17977bb140d10505168a9af142dc09c8@bsdforge.com> User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]); Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:28:21 +0000 (GMT) X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:7400::/38, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVY7y1rnZz4M0M X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Chris wrote: > way their regulated already. Adding another category and applying appropriate > perms to match. It basically changes nothing in the way a system regulates > user categories now. I was simply suggesting adding another (age based) > category. > Perms can be set accordingly. If you're going down that sort of route, why not just add a bunch of new groups to /etc/group: not_verified_13:*:newuser1,newuser2 not_verified_18:*:newuser3,newuser4 not_verified_21:*:newuser5,newuser6 Of course, that would need to be manually altered when someone reaches an age milestone, but that would be the same with an extra field. Still (and this isn't directed at you), I think the whole thing is stupid and doomed to failure. Besides, this would be moot for someone running a FreeBSD desktop, or other system they control, and for things like web-based services that use a FreeBSD backend, they'll already have higher level authorisation controls baked into the system. So, it probably would only work for the small percentage of pre university aged children who access remote unix systems to play nethack in the terminal! :-) From nobody Tue Mar 10 12:33:28 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVYFn6CfSz6VZjc; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:33:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from arcade@b1t.name) Received: from ratatosk.b1t.name (smtp.b1t.name [130.61.88.158]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVYFn0GHXz4N9N; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:33:33 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from arcade@b1t.name) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=b1t.name header.s=rat header.b=fj5mWV9J; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=b1t.name; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of arcade@b1t.name designates 130.61.88.158 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=arcade@b1t.name Received: from [10.125.1.20] (unknown [91.199.138.118]) by ratatosk.b1t.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AD8E5EE3; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 12:33:29 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=b1t.name; s=rat; t=1773146010; bh=jELoR7yV08xHgBzdp3ePOi85+4adozAqMhw3eLvuQAg=; h=Date:From:Subject:References:To:In-Reply-To; b=fj5mWV9JbnKkbdA0mELcoRxoE9jmPDcHYI/7bdtKdeUBaafkKCgsKqQHe81P/ldf+ 13MlruVbmgYOwqPRc37ZJ2MhIZq5YJ85UzBhocTuQzQw0vAYkdJEBQ1kkD/LC+Wur8 O7rCojs4LT+cT3J4Y90NqB4UDQDkRGCWgzFYJzrd8APE+KQvL6Ca9ryNeiA809bgIb oCq9Zvb8nBzWlT30GKAvGxiZSXsE9rCszJCVbYQhE4FgXwvbFroWF+0pbtgwwZlsKO ATneaThR9DAbdkR0g+9lse6+CtImecnZui+xCx2wxmDbYvoyUydJhDCRgTfY7ej4df B7VGHbozNaduomR3aQaRu6rFVm0u4lueZRgknMkCi2V6ymrSKjrq2+A1G9rHmo+Zkr 9R0N2mz8+hl8q3xVRJxU0Ah9rn8xNeMNwzSLPhheJEYilN0CRWQB7ItQCWMycvRLjv qHP2psSCUGvn3R5NK44viWIP+GqB3iSdOmUIWw3moD/a1VAN9gUS6EYI6oM7HfORTA k89uuZbKnfrtV4hqlWy33iUhV/B7RVZRFCC3neKwewelyXkk5zkYXHkELHHJt7PJS0 ALJvv7mMWZ+dz2cqa0il8PBMoSbOXW3nJ8RKpNaHeOpa953IRXGNRui9zNo+BXflJV E5cHCNrixeLCrDXzfEITYxj8= Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 14:33:28 +0200 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird From: Volodymyr Kostyrko Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem References: <08dc619e-955a-438d-86ba-751b1fa63bce@vincentbentley.co.uk> <17977bb140d10505168a9af142dc09c8@bsdforge.com> Content-Language: en-US To: "freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org" , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org In-Reply-To: <17977bb140d10505168a9af142dc09c8@bsdforge.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.79 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.99)[-0.989]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[b1t.name,none]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.20)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[b1t.name:s=rat]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ASN(0.00)[asn:31898, ipnet:130.61.88.0/21, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org,freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[b1t.name:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVYFn0GHXz4N9N X-Spamd-Bar: --- 10.03.26 11:39, Chris: > On 2026-03-10 00:44, Michael Schuster wrote: >> On Mon, Mar 9, 2026 at 11:13 PM Chris wrote: >> >>> On 2026-03-09 10:39, vermaden wrote: >>> > Lucas Holt from MidnightBSD just created aged(8) here: >>> > - https://github.com/MidnightBSD/src/tree/master/usr.sbin/aged >>> >>> While I think the initiative as written is untenable (unenforceable) >>> Wouldn't it be enough to write an additional field to adduser(8) >>> say; born / over 13? Then allow ports to use it as they so choose? >>> It's a dead simple approach w/ near zero work/overhead. >>> >> >> Speaking as a "naive" user and developer: >> Where would you want to store that information? the GECOS field is known >> nearly universally, you can't just change it, it'd break ... lots ot >> stuff. >> >> Besides: storing people's age in a publicly visible place probably >> wouldn't >> fly with many people, esp in the EU. > I was thinking more on the lines of permissions of different users in > the same > way their regulated already. Adding another category and applying > appropriate > perms to match. It basically changes nothing in the way a system regulates > user categories now. I was simply suggesting adding another (age based) > category. > Perms can be set accordingly. > Seemed like an painless possibility. Maybe I'm over/under thinking it? There's a really bad example on storing sensitive (PII) information. During World War ][ there was many more victims amongst jews in Netherlands then in all France, and one of the reasons for that was better government records. What is currently is being discussed is PII - Personally Identifiable Information, that can be used to select and target less protected citizens, easy pray. Storing this information in files in clear form makes this information accessible to anyone who can access host (including remote access). Storing this information in encrypted form to be available only under select user is also prone to be queried by any malicious software, including remote exploits resulting in targeting kids online. So I humbly ask all developers here to think twice before querying, storing and making available any sensitive information that is not required for system to function so none of us would later be liable for disclosure. -- Sphinx of black quartz judge my vow. 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([2804:f1c:844:5d01:196d:ce58:1001:b4b3]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 71dfb90a1353d-56b09ae8cf3sm11793516e0c.12.2026.03.10.07.52.04 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 10 Mar 2026 07:52:06 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 11:52:03 -0300 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: FreeBSDKit aged, agectl, AgeSignal To: Mark Linimon , "Enji Cooper (yaneurabeya)" , Graham Perrin Cc: freebsd-hackers References: <84eed8be-3dbb-40aa-91fb-bf46929dc486@gmail.com> <63465B82-57F8-4BDF-A8B6-936FBC5E7D75@gmail.com> <128084957.2386148.1773099410398@privateemail.com> Content-Language: en-US From: Renato Botelho Autocrypt: addr=garga@FreeBSD.org; keydata= xsBNBGStavwBCACjNlp/9+Y+VFe9ieR2h/WWbdvjz4Mb2z/f22bGoaskzCfvVNbo/v3i34I9 H6OdgZkGqheQEAD2jNfRbmPr4z40xDMUpYGLds+1Mvg7G3Hms3j5Ef8KaLSWUNWIfwKdfSVR Qs35ccSJxAdRW5YdI6J3xZgika+3Bc4eJ05YE/nWW+PNTYevt5rqD50N3zybVYIcLoqVPpBi AZE/sf5SLiLACIJb1t/s4x+pi8vgWevxVVT9u8V1f8zYErmHSLSqjxii0B3eRZphX9NCJOv9 +tfFZhnENInhn9gT7H4e2YumUltEy3jacONHJF3CC1pvvWEa6lEyypclMOkHQwNON7DLABEB AAHNLFJlbmF0byBCb3RlbGhvIChGcmVlQlNEKSA8Z2FyZ2FARnJlZUJTRC5vcmc+wsCXBBMB CgBBAhsDBQkFo5qABQsJCAcDBRUKCQgLBRYDAgEAAh4FAheAFiEERL7Dxegbnh7xTiQ5Ob6P xxJcZXoFAmSta78CGQEACgkQOb6PxxJcZXrYlggAgaZmr6c1yIWzN8VksHrHpwt/uxONEP+h ljy3yfrMsgfS5wx5Uzgfih1xYZUFC6jiI63CetqBqJpp3g1klRS1UWYKx2NeXphDMYZEdPm/ a6sXh4bKZbk6IE8Yn0/YiRT57d9DtbvswC7Gn7Igj/MSbhl49TvTGyvuB6juaffVoYZViomx 5zMoee8Ml2o2qj3MrCJ+/K8GU54RlpOGqGRsqdwVdr9XEWub6fF2YFwR46cjmbiU3P5urFHH nkJlBGPIwKxHimTW0lZsdx9aCKRDd/D80/WOEzXmk3k8B9lv/GsvOluHmveLhJG1R1tIJ31I f2q8dfTvqsQXnu8CcWRcgc7ATQRkrWr8AQgA1DufoxScA+CWQbUR6zExIu8wXQKrhuRt4DG2 BgynT7EMUvEBadcbQRZXsBpemNfncc9Axyut/+rWiyKJf9BLQuo/9QYmSRvW1U6+0LJUYmdg kMyBeYaPk+vnssv/u9jLuvV7FVgyE0yk1iaWIKOVDD+XrQCOvGw9uSceBrQyCyo3A/eRM/+p vnDCaywR63PKE+3axk6lfNdGK3TnaWmS30/ZDCZlNsXuqprqR4JdT5wXids5o36dsuJ5EZ20 s5hNMD34s4Yr1Y1R9elH6qBsFCpozs0+jwrArxq+UJJCR6hH5W8ZEwJtRC8tzR8mRE1WywzX BXYj0YhfGztQIxZckQARAQABwsB8BBgBCgAmFiEERL7Dxegbnh7xTiQ5Ob6PxxJcZXoFAmSt avwCGwwFCQWjmoAACgkQOb6PxxJcZXr1vgf/SKXhoZcUU5I7TqcbHg0lJz9tICTupCGHWr/s SQgjh9oEM5j1wqW7FlCGP90Tl9K0g3ow9YdbhU7VK470o6pymX9V9eLHzGgkZO/KMEtGBeK1 u+5ePjCJ/MK5B21KODLSU7WrIL1VN5ceXfQPLYt02LMLtPri+oduHD6RNBeA7US1DUzleq5F 9NHGbvV2U7BdDUezpiO8NaFjFZVB11I5d99FxUM5XGVstI3VhsRKZxjY0KnqJzaQgTFsPGmv AUfZVIN1pXgXiedhPXpr8+Y64jP+pHVwpVmh1zYWL6+q3kqFOUVP6c5iiMeoEXZvgJz7x/AC ek3X5gvu8Hpcv+MZIg== In-Reply-To: <128084957.2386148.1773099410398@privateemail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVcKj17wcz3Txt X-Spamd-Bar: ---- On 09/03/26 20:36, Mark Linimon wrote: > I don't think any technical solution will work for a socio-political > problem. +1 -- Renato Botelho From nobody Tue Mar 10 16:25:28 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVfPq189Sz6VtpH; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 16:25:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net [65.75.216.6]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVfPp50J5z3hBv; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 16:25:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 62AGPTLm060153; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 09:25:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 62AGPSRV060152; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202603101625.62AGPSRV060152@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: Practical suggestions for resolving the Age Verification problem In-Reply-To: <202603101228.62ACSKxx074330@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> To: Jamie Landeg-Jones Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 09:25:28 -0700 (PDT) CC: michaelsprivate@gmail.com, bsd-lists@bsdforge.com, vince@vincentbentley.co.uk, vermaden@interia.pl, imp@bsdimp.com, freebsd-pkg@FreeBSD.org, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:10494, ipnet:65.75.216.0/24, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVfPp50J5z3hBv X-Spamd-Bar: ---- > Chris wrote: > > > way their regulated already. Adding another category and applying appropriate > > perms to match. It basically changes nothing in the way a system regulates > > user categories now. I was simply suggesting adding another (age based) > > category. > > Perms can be set accordingly. > > If you're going down that sort of route, why not just add a bunch of new > groups to /etc/group: > > not_verified_13:*:newuser1,newuser2 > not_verified_18:*:newuser3,newuser4 > not_verified_21:*:newuser5,newuser6 > > Of course, that would need to be manually altered when someone reaches an age milestone, > but that would be the same with an extra field. > > Still (and this isn't directed at you), I think the whole thing is stupid and doomed > to failure. > > Besides, this would be moot for someone running a FreeBSD desktop, or other system > they control, and for things like web-based services that use a FreeBSD backend, they'll > already have higher level authorisation controls baked into the system. > > So, it probably would only work for the small percentage of pre university aged > children who access remote unix systems to play nethack in the terminal! :-) > > FYI: unix already have a way to store birthdays, it is called calendar, please see /usr/share/calendar/calendar for many of ``our'' birthdays. Expand that and add the appropriate API's would be one way to go. Though I really think these pieces of legislation well ultimately fail in the courts as untenable solutions to a social problem. -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org From nobody Tue Mar 10 20:58:15 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVmSJ09Cnz6V3Kn for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 20:58:24 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from iio7@protonmail.com) Received: from mail-106102.protonmail.ch (mail-106102.protonmail.ch [79.135.106.102]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVmSG4XZpz3M0B for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 20:58:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from iio7@protonmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=M0LJhBLd; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=protonmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of iio7@protonmail.com designates 79.135.106.102 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=iio7@protonmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1773176300; x=1773435500; bh=W6tyJGFp1JLTm5W1jWMzDpDzwRXQhX2WWJumXvh7/7Q=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=M0LJhBLdvLDXt7aw7EhlXbzh0pWyPQ/1U3sRXpedauts7/pjviqN3oIv2KqQKFCdl +ZIeCSg6UgDThrFOfN16Q59JelPlUMIjg+uT1qolUiuTqVNc+2HmxfWUfQsGh5Y1ns HTtqgi06Zr2+YDfurlHM/Mot9LpjUaAQKsDk2tcawR0tBfY97n6olCM19NuRlO3N20 CmbtNth9Jjbhv1RebSN+OMiBxSos5tJFDGU8y+z4KkdtaEo4ACWFNQcAh0szLJnCUz CwUsmu8Ph8TyqkzOzKIq8l6wB1krWTFWkSDUa5zYdr8I4XR2fySVKb9FK4LsJR/nHy L7CcQ02s2ma9A== Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 20:58:15 +0000 To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" From: Martin Subject: Prevent spin-up of USB HD after upgrading to FreeBSD 15 - solved Message-ID: Feedback-ID: 31965842:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: 0a27a58722ce10b634310816b8b42a3285d3988e List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:07:50 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from iio7@protonmail.com) Received: from mail-43167.protonmail.ch (mail-43167.protonmail.ch [185.70.43.167]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "protonmail.com", Issuer "R12" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4fVmg9265xz3PV7 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:07:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from iio7@protonmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=protonmail.com header.s=protonmail3 header.b=OVMhqrAg; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=protonmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of iio7@protonmail.com designates 185.70.43.167 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=iio7@protonmail.com DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=protonmail.com; s=protonmail3; t=1773176866; x=1773436066; bh=1uSoi61C+n1phnUdiA6R1/RFMToV3W75KV9iXLoUDkU=; h=Date:To:From:Subject:Message-ID:Feedback-ID:From:To:Cc:Date: Subject:Reply-To:Feedback-ID:Message-ID:BIMI-Selector; b=OVMhqrAgRBOePzPvmiOmM+rmfSB18aJnyPLahu5f2jJ27/bgtAMeZX8ScfgUSA7c6 Wl8XMoQRtPkEq/SUlvb9jRgimI3Dl4FzoiSPj97Rinc3dpC8gggDltgwYi2N8qEbH4 fujcJCTqBMcL5hxVu81m5gPrN+uNylVVwOC8aUz21SPutakN24XuJQPuBCnDp8voGz rPqQylc2F+YEqwcKqcBQVhRbXATs29bOQDAnwD9nlwheGEN879seOk3F2B/uiDIqT7 VmAF9kreYV7ng48d9N5THYwkcziUWAAxwyBiUz+BL07LO6MxUV/EDaaGVvFo+1rzGU T7wFY9qLkldLQ== Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:07:44 +0000 To: "freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org" From: Martin Subject: Running ZFS base vs ports Message-ID: Feedback-ID: 31965842:user:proton X-Pm-Message-ID: ec4530a0cc51292575870adb43210d8d0156c75a List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.50 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.999]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[protonmail.com,quarantine]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_EXCELLENT(-0.40)[185.70.43.167:from]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[protonmail.com:s=protonmail3]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:185.70.43.0/24:c]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW(-0.10)[185.70.43.167:from]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:62371, ipnet:185.70.43.0/24, country:CH]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[protonmail.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[protonmail.com]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_ALL(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[protonmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVmg9265xz3PV7 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Hi, Since the issue of ZFS spinning [1] up disks has been solved in ZFS 2.4.1 a= nd I really want that ASAP, I discovered ZFS in ports which is 2.4.1. I cannot see that the documentation mentions anything about ZFS being in po= rts too, why, or how to use that over base, if one wants to do that? A search in the interweb provides answers like, "it's only there for the de= vs to do testing", eh what!? Should they (the devs) then not have their own= ports or something if that is the case? Gullible persons like myself might= be tempted to just install it and hope for the best, well because it's in = ports after all, so it must be in there for those who need more recent vers= ions of ZFS right? :) [1]: https://github.com/openzfs/zfs/issues/18082 From nobody Tue Mar 10 21:17:48 2026 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVmts63lYz6V4t8 for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:17:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [IPv6:2001:19f0:7400:8808:12:4:0:1]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4fVmts3MqPz3Qyd for ; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:17:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from jamie@catflap.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Catflap-Envelope-From: X-Catflap-Envelope-To: freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Received: from donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id 62ALHmCc096713; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:17:49 GMT (envelope-from jamie@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net) Received: (from jamie@localhost) by donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net (8.14.5/8.14.5/Submit) id 62ALHmAi096712; Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:17:48 GMT (envelope-from jamie) From: Jamie Landeg-Jones Message-Id: <202603102117.62ALHmAi096712@donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net> Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:17:48 +0000 Organization: Dyslexic Fish To: iio7@protonmail.com, freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org Subject: Re: Running ZFS base vs ports References: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Heirloom mailx 12.4 7/29/08 List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Greylist: Sender passed SPF test, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (donotpassgo.dyslexicfish.net [209.250.224.51]); Tue, 10 Mar 2026 21:17:49 +0000 (GMT) X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:7400::/38, country:US] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4fVmts3MqPz3Qyd X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Martin wrote: > Hi, > > Since the issue of ZFS spinning [1] up disks has been solved in ZFS 2.4.1 and I really want that ASAP, I discovered ZFS in ports which is 2.4.1. > > I cannot see that the documentation mentions anything about ZFS being in ports too, why, or how to use that over base, if one wants to do that? I've never used the ports version of ZFS, but if you are comfortable upgrading the OS, upgrade to FreeBSD-15-STABLE which got 2.4.1 about a week ago. Cheers, Jamie