From nobody Wed Jul 30 00:33:25 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsCr86cgvz62rSB for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 00:33:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Received: from mail-yw1-x1135.google.com (mail-yw1-x1135.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1135]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsCr855k3z3F3x for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 00:33:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from tomek@cedro.info) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-yw1-x1135.google.com with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71a42c5e14bso3948217b3.3 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cedro.info; s=google; t=1753835616; x=1754440416; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=3sHeWLcRoscak0ZAVt7ouhluqxSX/bsTh+mI4M3sfFY=; b=dcGe3VRCtzTj3J7NZbnZ2i/4cw/eokAOP79Dvg7Oor2iT8uBO+GQxFMOsqEiI6tajM T2RPX9jIi4S3li1Hy52AMRMU7HSt6zWnc1FICGCbpvzZ6SoIRbAFy1p+beNq2dyhq7yc 1FpVOuwsFLDRkrC3XT+0dDOAJ5riKoszJjfHfrykoTaMW80GPBzV1XE8RKZKI8cL5xTF vRRNM8+FhEooieGfL4Sd27h691gjr3d63rl54AJXWTbTFx0WIKZUIcle91dlqmynk+YU xHsW0qLXD20iMT1/InEtVeZDj0fiF8rV/TzMHbvPxm7zoYnTTwfRf3OSzJ41YJuoBPHS pYZA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753835616; x=1754440416; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=3sHeWLcRoscak0ZAVt7ouhluqxSX/bsTh+mI4M3sfFY=; b=OE/IzR+R3nGPU4rdFTC6LEwBf0Pm8Ek/s7SSNVfNi2MgdHOd5EwtY5qOiToKzoszTT c6LiCDf3GTSkRMISpMBgVF3q5Eyha5gMiGinaMoN1nqZv0GTMpvJSK0aK12PqMjbjdlH T5CkpYVtpNewtHGFYzLoeoQUT+ej6CnMAJgRA3sz4Kjs8RoWHcP8ZTH8WQnAI+dXktG0 enqqTy9W67IF2FqY1py0lqCDq8dYLs6oiEimXmsV0le71zcTK79ZAuhtS/hqeSp2JpMM k3/xkljrhhRIiJC/lDf52F5gnQqT1DwFaC8wgek4cdOtw3JnEhZQkG/kgDGs2qiF7/i1 9Kyw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCV7sOnYG+hAJnr+ajM3YOVmZsYKy7/z3DFueO8bOpbb/oGnZQqs+/uLfIKeBbcYLTz6mu+Ri/BvMU28+SIURA==@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxPfKQZ9Gj7rWeJIFBv0kf+cXB0YaD2ekfjdkosYZ/97KY3VGWk +rdjAdDmBM/GpU2CwkvlDWY0830RrXj0jSMQdI6kmo7pTjPaDKcEguXAGJj4mZs85A== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncu25GDfOruw2cUnZYDekyWrE2cKYL6tbbJcXlBySQ3wQ93aaNM5SBgwnU9NJ21 nUpkJAo8geHRK+fwSZFMjXduTGH7vZ+A5d3NVpiOtWrhmc9x5/FuSL4QNm+UfPWO3xJxlj2L8eY ZnMVVV3PeBx1fXwU7NExvwrukfK82hswuig7y5AzMxx0XrvL9ppBCRxGTs7JmVUZwVsQ9zvzssO n+Lm+bNuYFUsCH7ipD0Eb+0l7mSMFvZelxIHILg7jIKnUMcq1pB43OJOgABMmnXHIt6pZyVN3xj FzhOwb/eMujMj6UUMlH4dnkGk2rG+bCwiMWJbLyXjp50cz/yxUtS3EeL8KQoLpq+P49bWaP9gnH yrVhxnAVHLdPyEVd3ys811fFtktKBS/rGfIeK0RCZeI5Dqvhv1QhkFRwO9dw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHR6ov4pT5BlNCVEcmvFTZm06Dlvrn3PYGaROer6oGo/ceb7+D5rL/aKQomWeV8NBP3JJ+DtQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:338f:b0:71a:39a7:de21 with SMTP id 00721157ae682-71a46522702mr27176057b3.3.1753835616197; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-f170.google.com (mail-yb1-f170.google.com. [209.85.219.170]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 00721157ae682-719f215308dsm21225587b3.18.2025.07.29.17.33.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-f170.google.com with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8e0d209623so465348276.0; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUQRhHFUUrTkY58sdrqoLrBlrGrMXY1DJdyS3zYop+hHLHICXcjOlpbI6Jiepcc3Owbe33k/Z47Z7qGuYA=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCVSpYnjmO6uXqlTwwMGurKwp6arUCl7x3ht93QJsykY6uwtf2X9zD1DaUTYzLivyoomxiqPjcBPsz3Htzcpafc=@freebsd.org, AJvYcCWMbCrMaTynN6X3Nydu51luuebawow1vZouizeKkar6r84Gm5z2XaDmpKdoIugKfcu9Splu9TQdIc0N739DcOg=@freebsd.org X-Received: by 2002:a05:6902:6b16:b0:e8e:29bf:df08 with SMTP id 3f1490d57ef6-e8e315c9869mr1947671276.44.1753835615089; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 17:33:35 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tomek CEDRO Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:33:25 +0200 X-Gmail-Original-Message-ID: X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXz2xIy7Zp7RcdYgvXd8HSltpqZSHe0EqKZPI9mOBZLPrpqAhiFNO8LJQ44 Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d517e5063b1aac38" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsCr855k3z3F3x X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --000000000000d517e5063b1aac38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Jul 30, 2025, 02:28 vermaden wrote: > Hi, > > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 > > I got REALLY concerned. > > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the > 'untouchable' Base System. > > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. > > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! > > Consider this command: > > # pkg delete -af > > What it does? > > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without > touching the FreeBSD Base System. > > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? > > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only > two PKGBASE packages called: > > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime > > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected > FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. > > WTF?! > > POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is > the POLA now? > > Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without > PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* > literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? > > Its crazy ... > > Regards, > vermaden > yup :-( -- CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info --000000000000d517e5063b1aac38 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On W= ed, Jul 30, 2025, 02:28 vermaden <vermaden@interia.pl> wrote:
Hi,

after short discussion here:
- https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485

I got REALLY concerned.

One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the '= ;untouchable' Base System.

Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved.

But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE!

Consider this command:

# pkg delete -af

What it does?

It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system wit= hout touching the FreeBSD Base System.

What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD = system?

It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two= PKGBASE packages called:

- FreeBSD-clibs
- FreeBSD-runtime

All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed.

You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected Free= BSD-rescue package and its also removed.

WTF?!

POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is t= he POLA now?

Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system w= ithout PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg dele= te -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System?

Its crazy ...

Regards,
vermaden

--000000000000d517e5063b1aac38-- From nobody Wed Jul 30 01:15:56 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsDnB5Mdgz62t9H for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:16:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ggm@algebras.org) Received: from mail-ed1-x52d.google.com (mail-ed1-x52d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::52d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsDnB024Gz3LHn for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:16:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ggm@algebras.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ed1-x52d.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-61571192ba5so1773179a12.2 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 18:16:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1753838167; x=1754442967; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=zAM4YlX0KnMrpUqYP05gmh8Xt/DUPAFGzFAUznWopEY=; b=JA/yJvLheClSQl8/XJ2ib5mDvzB5JRdVkgatdebuaINpCYTuc950YNlKL/nbHmmSQ+ FHJRnHGKKIx/78ll9ZoA8e8Hls7PZbP+pQl3Vx1pJO4yyRLYfsYWKRZxgp0fnjdtEQ5n n+J9eqaaZ8jWVJdEyM7w+UuPCo3uhmVI0JH/QBc1PO3aMvVA7ja70qMgdmHAkUYadmk9 ItjomlduqhjBR+O+DVgT5Pz8543eSEDb0vFUg2n+3QsP3cmRqbUrvsXEFOg4pNnImSeT HLWUnJgZo69CdiMaZCsu4iuNWmjahEEMfSaIAyV055VwPgu4Vj2I/eZ0tYkqp8xWsYKh qmPw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753838167; x=1754442967; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=zAM4YlX0KnMrpUqYP05gmh8Xt/DUPAFGzFAUznWopEY=; b=Bh+cjd/v9v8iwIOFets4BPWBxdyGaEfuzzxpBTg3HCzPVLgitew+BKSGaBFM/P0v1L UwaGOqiCh0VA8TCDXtqM81TEm7AdEUWqBLTtsxQyy6hxppYD+pnqqq45Pc+ULqOCm1wO jmT+ufyr0KNOi7ODFaYUa94i6ABypfg8kECQ8kt1iDPHbnjx0kkU3FQJ4kpLpQmQn7p9 brXzCdocAri/QlwNKeFNvkpf9x/N3SSUxAh3+o6sXY7oTQu1X6v4IAsEKy0yfI/ZjZ3Q qdXV94k8PfvJg9mWXmkWB6FSd2/BC8zVRqTJle1GGfHK2cg94sUMr/HS47zoe8X7oQsH gZxg== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWd/6GmuXw/xPpEEYM2hikRfHKeIlj7zBEsDpVJ+jif/ORCHTAuYtYVhArDqnShVO7vbuNY/smv8K217wWsBw==@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yww19Ft8X8HFRM80Sm9SNXzTvAQJd7wcEArzGt4zYA7u+nHMtMr qVslKjfGSgBs07rYBOMQUf7Jou87ZUmLNnjNG5Q+K3UBXTKMniRihauWfqrlXz80I33WwfAQ+6p Du6lwPIV0Ea6kw24iwfc7rs6ATFpC/Ey4D2IR39cV8A== X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncsZj3ZdQ2MPppaX5oNK0gV54JEgMoMWjU9WX4683tk4ls0kXEVZ2xnHA91krpL J1cEEGFyjrn5YyY9AyWDa6LuIB9ir0Sc1jTQpM83S6AyBHnd/oomQ0rwjNiF5+JVrmaiL5oMCd1 fnDl9jfRr3/I4zhpyygb7gf7Hcapc0mdXynytRo5wOw61h1jCel7d4carCDSMESNQ9FJYBxFADf 27Qf1j6KQ42R54vkbhN3PRVi4mrNi2My5g8tw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IFTL6+XnuIild731Ru5+ZRM2bqHnAP9zUO8BblvcR1Ug3PrtgI5aGB4LDeWUOz/SANleWjtwHKD8OodJHu3TEQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:d28:b0:ae3:a240:7ad4 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-af8fd69b4c9mr182536466b.4.1753838167491; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 18:16:07 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 11:15:56 +1000 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXwDaFJPcIggMeHANfJb0KVLk4mnU8ynjO_WHxjS14xL5h0FGTfkpjXNOCg Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Tomek CEDRO Cc: vermaden , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Stable , freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, FreeBSD Current Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f795e3063b1b4444" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsDnB024Gz3LHn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --000000000000f795e3063b1b4444 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Isn't this precisely what locked packages are designed to prevent? Outside of an upgrade tool, I would think locking "base" packages was .. sensible? -G > > --000000000000f795e3063b1b4444 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Isn't this precisely what locked pack= ages are designed to prevent?=C2=A0

Outside of an upgrad= e tool, I would think locking "base" packages was .. sensible?

-G

--000000000000f795e3063b1b4444-- From nobody Wed Jul 30 01:30:35 2025 X-Original-To: stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsF5y6fkCz62vLl for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:30:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mirror176@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM02-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam02olkn20813.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f403:2c05::813]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsF5y0zLbz3Ngb for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:30:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mirror176@hotmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=bi2sutzl; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of mirror176@hotmail.com designates 2a01:111:f403:2c05::813 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=mirror176@hotmail.com; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1") ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Bof+goDGpAt0vKP+5pJOiOor7uBF48sv4B2soS1WfHuPjuZneJgW7n3LxlPRUww+Ny4iqzmFPfefu+sW+GTHe5mxudk10bFwaxgyNTopwvEs3N73s5z3Svkv6vtLp6L84XCQWmISON7dlFr6CdkrVmX68Ty2FgnYxaACQFDZpPGSV92pgcNCB9pP7Fnu++yJNJisHhfW0V7BG5KHi7j076dg4nRQhZAuW/4zdUjSEWkDuU9r1DazXKL14NnmTDpK1coLvE1QJpeRLku3cR6GpWu1Rj2vVOfiUlSv0CZIzSoyLppUh2y9FXjVn1mMWWIWO337AQ7piD4xXPm8Q6f9gg== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=ykufLXzE5IykmTqQl5CGLMr7J33oVX+KD07dMUxCE9A=; b=iSX3IorCowC5VzCOB6S+rMR6HyNMuuve63xb8X6ERen+KmB6UqaTYXXsZhVP14PyOGzG9ejEgSVgyhEsK5K5c3Pd1G/IknMYvsfCozabXapJDDP3KJ4UJ37vk/ipLMEXH0/ykdoLP8sajU7ez/dGsnLrtHx+vnG+DIkfrU/SVqrDJ8sFLOF4JQIOgiYAjjSvb3Y4dLvoZw0lzYQ4IavyTtWm4MAe8Bdrng7POwHVMQHc2yVl18rZ6RCpCJ2l7ZuO7Iy9WGDzaQiUhE38dBCRH/zaTtFzQz1zy7ieH5Za/f6AJiThk6XQoP2obtX4D+sX3TfjhzQL+V7/uIfW8yePFw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ykufLXzE5IykmTqQl5CGLMr7J33oVX+KD07dMUxCE9A=; b=bi2sutzlCcU8JfZ8osytWr83s0cgy+JWVGYcHLStq9gjeMmfrF2bL4ljvLMLfR2wfMSTdfrNO+mS6kFSNeuD20oQ/wqT2P/shalE9za04NTjcRINJs3cpada5qwysUQVXDU5J5pQ8FIMmABF3munNH6ZXJTGG8YOtZa1/wbg51ISGKK5t48fePWMZzGA8G66izo6ZAxNxwv120f8m1Ip13IMrJAHqO1W782AEVueJfveP11B1jsrW5bnaQMRHGEGiebjX55byDEKjYm7FogWxtrSVLX4s/+f0dahMpC7LWzGmudkr/+uOdSekgAbKWBwDbFA0wwdTEj6pSn/uopMzw== Received: from SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:467::18) by DM4PR11MB8228.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:8:180::19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8989.11; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:30:37 +0000 Received: from SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8575:c43:50e:8135]) by SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::8575:c43:50e:8135%6]) with mapi id 15.20.8964.024; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 29 Jul 2025 18:30:35 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: stable@freebsd.org References: Content-Language: en-US From: "Edward Sanford Sutton, III" In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ClientProxiedBy: SJ0PR03CA0185.namprd03.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:2ef::10) To SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:806:467::18) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SA1PR11MB8811:EE_|DM4PR11MB8228:EE_ X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: cfc3ae63-b6fe-4ef4-869b-08ddcf08afa7 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0;ARA:14566002|19110799012|461199028|15080799012|8060799015|5072599009|6090799003|39105399003|51005399003|440099028|40105399003|3412199025; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: =?utf-8?B?WVJydTV0bm13cTgvUGJsVWJZVmVLZTh1YU9SRG5aN05zWHI2RkpDd1pjVTBV?= =?utf-8?B?d3RjNm1IYnprbWhWZHZzVHE3enBtQU16WVlXNW1wVkR5Tk5VeDNOWHdTM2xh?= =?utf-8?B?M0ZmamhFVTVnd2UxVXo0SjBmSE5sZ2ErRWErZG9lYSt5MGVuY2hJNEI1bjkr?= =?utf-8?B?ZGZHanJBeGxvNVlLODRkS0hrWkJ0VkdZb3hTS3FwcGRuclZlcUlHQjFWZzBH?= =?utf-8?B?UUhLSnBUTFhWNnd0RkU5alZZRXgycGMzTGRzaEdkbm1sMFJqYU1WbXNjVU9F?= =?utf-8?B?NVFzUmNKTDF0V0tiRGFYdFZxU0JpOHZjMmtsRXlrelZlM1VkNDV5QjY4L3BP?= =?utf-8?B?RGV2dmdMeU5FVmpqd0FBZ0tjbTArQUZnRzZZanoxNVNGTHgyMmc5NkVmRlB1?= =?utf-8?B?bE9jbU5IOUd2UDlKS3RGSTR0UUtoQ1p6TytkNjhJUTlNdTF6VEJ4VmZMaGFJ?= =?utf-8?B?MjN5c3VvN3dkR1RSd2ZSdEtGQVByR2dtaEVPSHE0bitDaTlqWHVUVVFnYkVL?= =?utf-8?B?cjQ3MnhsZjVwWjc0Z3JUQ0lVMVV5OU1VTDlwTmxnNDg1MmJGVVRlSlBwT0lq?= =?utf-8?B?d2hWMTgwalJDMm9QQmhjOXAxT3JQK2pDNHJIakN5U25ZTHMweDJmaHhVcmhH?= =?utf-8?B?L0FydDhUTlJQV1k1T3QrTk56c1NFWGhqMGpybGM1aDJyRVRUd2ZBdW1XZ290?= =?utf-8?B?dVdLai91ZmZ2MkFZNWs2VWc0YStjakFJWW8ySm5EUTJ4cGtVNnlFK0dqUXlW?= =?utf-8?B?VlR2K1dta2hoMDlFSEJacTI2cFpPM3VXamdXVkZIU1hCVGtNNUk1SzdvN3dK?= =?utf-8?B?ampGUlhpNkhaVSszWlBndXdOclh2Y2ZROU9hUzZDSVE0b2krL1o2NzZibjRj?= =?utf-8?B?QjJOVUJyT1lZUnFBeDBJTXlhelBHQzMzdlJlU2xVU0Iwa3VsWHp3VnMweEF5?= =?utf-8?B?TzF4RWdNNFpvRVZiUnRlaEhKVnBpdzgrTzdaZy9ZNEZLMTRSR3JYeXl2MGdn?= =?utf-8?B?MWwzT2tRLzNSdGpod1RnVHlMdDNGRC94dUQ0Yk9zNitLSHZKSDViMk1xZ1I5?= =?utf-8?B?dlkyRUtTV1hPVXFMWDZWbk5yTVhRUC9mYjdPdkFjdm84K20xaDhJSUVjRnp1?= =?utf-8?B?aFZWQnZYSUU2dkhybWlieGpUTzBWQWRYYXpyMFJJeGhoZ0ZsU1A3dU1MUjBD?= =?utf-8?B?YTFNZXAxV0cwTHNQT21KSGtFVkJ6eDQvZmJOVzBiVDFGazU3VFZzNU9JWStD?= =?utf-8?B?UlJRa2JpUmlIZ0hsZkhUN2JSNkVtMStLZ1ZzM1V3eWk3cnljRXlEbkVGbEY5?= =?utf-8?B?N0d1WWdwUHNLcWY1dnZYRkc1WXFGRm1KWkhnWUk1ZExoa2lDZXRqSytWYmR3?= =?utf-8?B?WjFrZnJ5TjYwb2E4bzdpekRlNXZBSTI1Uk5iMTJlMk16ekFLYnhHUG1nVkUv?= =?utf-8?B?ejU0YWppZU5JMWlrUGEveVlIZGhNc2JGbm9ObzFrek9TSU5TTEVvK1o0Vk45?= =?utf-8?B?TGk3dTVYb0dSZHZsTEhUb1ZJUzFQcDZVLy9taEtDbHhwTHRGdUFCQ29WQWhi?= =?utf-8?B?WnhPTktTNWM3YWVjZ2lPU1g0MHVFbWM4b0w4U29GOFI3VXNZNU9hR0RsVlR1?= =?utf-8?B?emlwUGxQUEpEQVltVUhjZ0RwNjZ5NEE9PQ==?= X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?ODZHY1FkTUNPMzh1T1E5NEpXQ1lZSVhEejV1VUh6Y0VNQ2x0TDJlMlFacmlO?= =?utf-8?B?eEp6ckc3aFVEU2FOOTFOK01nTldrU0ZobUY3RHVpQ2NSdE1Ycm5RR2cxSzFS?= =?utf-8?B?a05ETmNIVS8wbFdFaXhycy9zSS9rOEhEdHV6Wk9pdHRqRXZHUjUyY2RabCt5?= =?utf-8?B?OXRJenE4SVFUTXU5cmhVSWFGb21RZE1MYUFXcW5mME10WXZNTlpoTGhIQWo1?= =?utf-8?B?NGVvUTFYcTBJYkxMZy9WN25aUlNTKzU3Z3p5UUthdVFOTllWN0NpZVJEVTd0?= =?utf-8?B?VkJuTnRLdk9oajFldDl4S2RYWTJkVjRMUEJlZVZCQ0p1andET2FnM3VrY2RJ?= =?utf-8?B?akVOQW94bzdCb3dQalhFZ0xHZlNjMUZKRnd2bHdTcGtQVWxHaXZrWlZhN0Zq?= =?utf-8?B?K08yVWxiZjRGYnpWWW8zRFhuQmxsdXBkb0R3dlllOXUvclJKTGVDTG4zZWRO?= =?utf-8?B?SW9wN2wzWkZVOXM1WWNKNzZqUmdzMDZReC9EaGI2RmV3RTBlalE5STIxdVRB?= =?utf-8?B?b3FlTjIwUWkzZEg4RHZIRFBUazJlbm1wb0YyaXY3RXV5dmR0Z0VHMlJSRm9y?= =?utf-8?B?SWpMYm1IdHVldnZyS2NRZ0NCckhOTEZlL0I4VlRFK2RPaXFyR2ZmOVpGd0R4?= =?utf-8?B?MTJLQzFGQjVsSTBmQ1ZCSlZ6T0FSTmw1VzhaaWlTRWVEL1ROMldsVk93RnBD?= =?utf-8?B?dkp5UDFQWGwxYUc5ZVNpaGZYMWhYUkxPYzZ4d1BUVjRlWGQrVks4YkVEUFBU?= =?utf-8?B?RDl1T1N4TUo1TjBDQUFIQkV0RmhJem0zTzF4NkwyYnNaTEtpc2MwWnNhQW1G?= =?utf-8?B?cUx3UmdienZyV0I5L3dDaFhrc1JEZndiVlJRejBXbUhEenZqem9SaWhlMnNm?= =?utf-8?B?NXpKQllWalNDS1hvT1RPUzllSVBBTkpROWg2TUlXZE5aL0VRK2dvTzU3R1ly?= =?utf-8?B?Z2orYlNhWmtWYUMxTC9mUGJMWWNRQzEwTzBIcTJPWWpKa3RnaGpSMjE5UU45?= =?utf-8?B?RFBIYzdUMXBRUmFiSTdER0JVcVpuTkd6NUpBd2x0RmFTWkc5NHN0ZnRjTk10?= =?utf-8?B?SnJsMUY4dnMvd255YzMzSjF0RU1TZ1JPNkI3YjhpZk5GQ3pVZTMzdGUwR2Rx?= =?utf-8?B?OTFSYUF3L0crbE1SUFFtSk53eEFIb3JTVExXNm9zamU3TzRzQXF2ODcvdGVi?= =?utf-8?B?dVJaYkhpUFo3ODYyRm82WjdUL0psNGtkZ0JteDBGV3JvQ0dsMHowbUtGeUxY?= =?utf-8?B?YnZGU1R0TWhvemFDS3NHa1BxbmtFYUx1UnNJYjd5R1lubDJEUmpPMTNITy9j?= =?utf-8?B?R3pJZVQvU1ZKcVJRY3gvK3pqbDVrVkV6UzVKaktyc2tRRW5YMFlBUUNTVUNl?= =?utf-8?B?MlZSdFJGOFBMWDlwRUpzajRaanhxMTlUdTlVRk5GSExmQ2FjaFUyS05oZ3pq?= =?utf-8?B?MWVDN0FSOTY3UzJ0N3NNdE1PeTkyb2lqaWZ5a1VNQWxLc3RNMWtKZmwzcEc0?= =?utf-8?B?bm5iaGpWcnhURmtRTURHZE9jNWhsSDMrTFFKUkdzMndIMHNCVTJlcXJreFFJ?= =?utf-8?B?bGNvcmk2c05WbUZiN2w2RFVrUHFhbGRtNG1qYXI5eWs0ZmlaVVFxTXE1UFMv?= =?utf-8?Q?bczI9sD7A1FcKtmKx1uFSA0BbTm+ldnORveau1AHInl8=3D?= X-OriginatorOrg: sct-15-20-8534-20-msonline-outlook-b287a.templateTenant X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: cfc3ae63-b6fe-4ef4-869b-08ddcf08afa7 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SA1PR11MB8811.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Jul 2025 01:30:37.5317 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DM4PR11MB8228 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.50 / 15.00]; FORGED_MUA_THUNDERBIRD_MSGID_UNKNOWN(2.50)[]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-1.00)[-0.997]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f403::/49]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[stable@freebsd.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsF5y0zLbz3Ngb X-Spamd-Bar: -- On 7/29/25 18:15, George Michaelson wrote: > Isn't this precisely what locked packages are designed to prevent? I thought locking packages was intended to stop any modification to them so both upgrades and removal would not happen. Another topic is its debatable 'if' -f should bypass a lock or not. Considering -f is supposed to be able to let pkg delete itself and perform deletes that mess up dependencies, I'd say it shouldn't be expected that it keeps things safe from other damaging removals; an interactive warning seems justifiable when a request to 'break things' occurs. > Outside of an upgrade tool, I would think locking "base" packages was .. > sensible? > > -G > > From nobody Wed Jul 30 01:41:18 2025 X-Original-To: stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsFLV18vLz62vJD for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:41:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ggm@algebras.org) Received: from mail-ej1-x629.google.com (mail-ej1-x629.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::629]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsFLT5kJWz3QTD for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 01:41:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ggm@algebras.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-ej1-x629.google.com with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-ae36dc91dc7so1053166066b.2 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 18:41:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=algebras-org.20230601.gappssmtp.com; s=20230601; t=1753839690; x=1754444490; darn=freebsd.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=5MYxh7xBmLYTY4VdxOFI/QWi51xl2hAEDzca2wU4xkc=; b=IM4LBB/KqGg0PCSjNqW7ZlLHAjHj88nSUTX4Z0Ijqqlma4QBVZi38VG6bYUzSO2C/n UaHfGn9MqxAkJp8JYg39DBD9PvjyTg4e9Zxh4czmW0LUIMT4svqRPGjNw4gjoaY/5bRs GLzu5JOR/+MgVWXHiv/G8AuPS0wdN1izhO1739nyCV6fzk7/SIRIFZZ/hryarrJwnCRg uqbTKTnIf24Bq+FA1lDQrvqXvwWwrYVAZ+GAXHzkyl3jT0ep44ZzfzUPn4c92eeaFJgH gs7uewLCTTEzPzPNIlO7eah7S3ytmLXWjFcj6yHAjp57Tv/FMZn3wTj1A5s17YnDNkwb k1ng== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753839690; x=1754444490; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=5MYxh7xBmLYTY4VdxOFI/QWi51xl2hAEDzca2wU4xkc=; b=T+9kecP8EfAEHhVEO9sXkCPJueVdWHhhMhnDgMA0WtXUp4zYCsuQl1S2xUMORsoocD osiZHUSAa58q2fyiVJ7IcQYVlDXPlIDbEul6bGpXO7lJwce7zr1HST+wkHKwKRgSH0kZ oKCsO8E7E9aaTOjCrixY4RzCMr/hfi+a7baiGoKrstENgnLKoV6nBMnHLWaFTI57LxDV G0QzdsZzbKKifzxYnGd5/VX+ClEhxFQbMuoq7bCygTwUXw/Hn72l+iL2z3JCHMIDwEdd 4NvF2OMn0rD4q63QQoHJrfKp4EdsqLySHEHiVjH/7HB32mp39BR8D2xglylSNZCZp8AL H4qA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yy6JIDOXqYrguCTRVQhc9yWMARA7iOT2jhrbXLmSNHWE8SPtbFb g8h3ia/Z/W/TSw93TV1ADaa5uj9p3qvScsO6JOFUfxcpueF28stU09RvfChOQysN3SdRzZJxwPu lNiv6uU2IFWXMhy6nfpDCCKmevrOzqEDZw5kXV8/s/m3J+jGciLcPIxM= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctxu5B8mhes8uaMxTnDh/CCHOEsKygoqUp288tQQAF8c4wPzYpxodA0qsbhQpH o7kaVaOw19+CxLKD28+VeESOM0rky2xmWDi2UcVXYAkIAq5rY8xH3kDR7tBP+br+iMY3oPKRdXn ae5f7YHKETjIxP7TM8/MbuwkYN4K4olAOuzHYXq0Ag1EeKzjHZQFDUiyf+IqVhao5u1rgDp+Iy3 E8hAIVS4a5/HqiwyYl9Yp+HDqbRVgSW7rlQ2A== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHPJrZDj/KU91EeGw1Vv/ASpiZ5FI2rF9VP4Vt4dad/R3IbcftkUcXDnVgqIOc1HW5HFhZodRboANan6ZQ8CqQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:907:3f16:b0:ada:4b3c:ea81 with SMTP id a640c23a62f3a-af8fd957532mr170834266b.39.1753839689594; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 18:41:29 -0700 (PDT) List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: George Michaelson Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 11:41:18 +1000 X-Gm-Features: Ac12FXxcTgp6lCXFZRBPnomHr9w8G66TFzarciXH4efnQZwoWDUBWfhHPokXnkw Message-ID: Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: "Edward Sanford Sutton, III" Cc: stable@freebsd.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000b10ce3063b1b9fb8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsFLT5kJWz3QTD X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US] --000000000000b10ce3063b1b9fb8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable rm -rf does not remove files marked by chflags to be immutable. on that basis "-f" doesn't mean what people think. It doesn't mean "ignore locks" in a colloquial sense. if you provide a lock to pkg, then pkg delete -f should not removed locked things. my 3c On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 11:31=E2=80=AFAM Edward Sanford Sutton, III < mirror176@hotmail.com> wrote: > On 7/29/25 18:15, George Michaelson wrote: > > Isn't this precisely what locked packages are designed to prevent? > > I thought locking packages was intended to stop any modification to > them so both upgrades and removal would not happen. > Another topic is its debatable 'if' -f should bypass a lock or not. > Considering -f is supposed to be able to let pkg delete itself and > perform deletes that mess up dependencies, I'd say it shouldn't be > expected that it keeps things safe from other damaging removals; an > interactive warning seems justifiable when a request to 'break things' > occurs. > > > Outside of an upgrade tool, I would think locking "base" packages was .= . > > sensible? > > > > -G > > > > > > > --000000000000b10ce3063b1b9fb8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
rm -rf does not remove files marked by chflags to be immut= able.

on that basis "-f" doesn't mean what= people think. It doesn't mean "ignore locks" in a colloquial= sense.

if you provide a lock to pkg, then pkg= delete -f should not removed locked things.

my 3c=

On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 11:31=E2=80=AFAM Edwa= rd Sanford Sutton, III <mirror1= 76@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 7/29/25 18:15, George Michaelson wrote:
> Isn't this precisely what locked packages are designed to prevent?=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0I thought locking packages was intended to stop any modificati= on to
them so both upgrades and removal would not happen.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Another topic is its debatable 'if' -f should bypass a= lock or not.
Considering -f is supposed to be able to let pkg delete itself and
perform deletes that mess up dependencies, I'd say it shouldn't be =
expected that it keeps things safe from other damaging removals; an
interactive warning seems justifiable when a request to 'break things&#= 39;
occurs.

> Outside of an upgrade tool, I would think locking "base" pac= kages was ..
> sensible?
>
> -G
>
>


--000000000000b10ce3063b1b9fb8-- From nobody Wed Jul 30 02:18:40 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsG9P5zXBz62xh7 for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Received: from mail-il1-x12c.google.com (mail-il1-x12c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::12c]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsG9P1Yq1z3V8X for ; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:18:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: by mail-il1-x12c.google.com with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3e3f1e69090so4408935ab.0 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:18:49 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hardenedbsd.org; s=google; t=1753841923; x=1754446723; darn=freebsd.org; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=FWyKtvViwAipW1o2CtrZRsm/eREDJagaPbgzxTkraDY=; b=Rb3vl+h83sjsaFa1hgXW/VzleDpf93iwO/79IGvo0kOElEX1VyYVPb+uB6RiyJSJ6V PLzkn+tUnU+PcTE11lRHks9Q51sfptNcSODAbCrBcpFlrkMLU6hhyirqYIjnjFw403/E bV5N8clwtBhk2fGslYp4gP4RERbklzfugiXE7YigKdLizIYYzN7b/RIm8z0g7o1YPU9i 65c1/+3rVDjplodCwp8bmuE9TMJvQMPWOsqT8I4NEGXv7evLh6XgyJ+0U1t3U1ElvSnN wNwbBDW3bEzHAYoR8iMunB7XzuadYVNS7ajH0NYULbs0v3kg3+H8Ybd0JSfCSFkTILxC wpYQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1753841923; x=1754446723; h=in-reply-to:content-disposition:mime-version:references:message-id :subject:cc:to:from:date:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=FWyKtvViwAipW1o2CtrZRsm/eREDJagaPbgzxTkraDY=; b=FACwL3UmwgiYb5yBvSeMbJts2t8YwGnepoj8XQHhXsJjutlelq5sCkMfjL5raFmtFD 5d/Oo/8hn+r3Ix/yq3KQ2OhIVzUrsNKvhDwb2qWABmzogG2HW+6QpKKC3ZrK343tGS4r H0kIYtsZdbBFpH67e7zajSEgEkXT2Ao5r+tiUdR5wq9TET+c9k3CvD54/PkqFRuBiq1r iFyab1SYj4FPFGfAw4Z/JhcYh6a8QCtJvY39VRHagYoi/hdJd0CXxPAexs+lTQ1HXrVi pcZ9ANxo+8oCmnfvenXzy9Q53FNFaA8r2oeKtMRosFwOdnRq+TPHmshNAqgLScSmDUx3 ieTw== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCUAD+XGpr3ftvfSUE0kOkqYNNnsRlSF1qp192p1rZwiOqXdAdJX4Dpfbvh3C+XKcWfKq5ORRe/eYXOpFxXg6A==@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yzn7pDUN8F9rkVO2YJQDAKWO/BB1yOVoSpVYEin8JXzM63a0CqF 3R4GlPfAPYxAeefpcIIBPmG57tvoJq9U+q8CMhoOlwA2FbDQsZOKQ86FmXwxR+q5Ews= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGnctZBifodF0ZGOJmMxNFELfQ/0sfbl19Yu6wM3Ksp+Khr4BPrEm89N8yRLtu73/ V/PENAImJTk3/igfIqpN3fWmGEOPuRnP6GUNv5fjhxXcAyfHz94wy1u+70XcoqWTpXbnV4+wHSH RU21IRmPUZMcHiDMpPlUmUMQEuul9R4mMNNTx4GbUKJXlojLXdLxGku4+Z1U4J0cHLWho8mHCU3 BUbzRJqOA69woaozQTFGFArmCKohb8T5519xstuYQBHgULpPMdihsgYRt/eeiCw4eCY60oDsbi1 IVazkb3e3twAojzEE2YIknPjIRM8AC5hUuFsHFesj0EmxExL3FSN3NptDFyIbbFaP2/8MRu2zHL y7sJ2 X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IEzBfOD66Qlv0na0anm5FSqJP2wHRJRzCEGvy2KFUR7UTeNm8X52UOxSXYaMxYhz62wPJilTQ== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6e02:1906:b0:3e3:d252:c0b5 with SMTP id e9e14a558f8ab-3e3f60d1cbdmr29535425ab.1.1753841922984; Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:18:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mutt-hbsd ([2001:470:4001:1::95]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 8926c6da1cb9f-508c91edeb1sm3027875173.35.2025.07.29.19.18.40 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Tue, 29 Jul 2025 19:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 02:18:40 +0000 From: Shawn Webb To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-ID: X-Operating-System: FreeBSD mutt-hbsd 14.3-STABLE-HBSD FreeBSD 14.3-STABLE-HBSD HARDENEDBSD-14-STABLE amd64 X-PGP-Key: https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/blob/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc References: List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="z6ngwkyglkjghwbx" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsG9P1Yq1z3V8X X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US] --z6ngwkyglkjghwbx Content-Type: text/plain; protected-headers=v1; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature MIME-Version: 1.0 On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: > Hi, >=20 > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >=20 > I got REALLY concerned. >=20 > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'u= ntouchable' Base System. >=20 > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >=20 > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >=20 > Consider this command: >=20 > # pkg delete -af >=20 > What it does? >=20 > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without t= ouching the FreeBSD Base System. >=20 > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >=20 > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only t= wo PKGBASE packages called: >=20 > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime >=20 > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. Hey vermaden, As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if the current list (of two) should be expanded. I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a positive direction. Thanks, --=20 Shawn Webb Cofounder / Security Engineer HardenedBSD Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 Tor-ified Signal: +1 303-901-1600 / shawn_webb_opsec.50 https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A= 4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc --z6ngwkyglkjghwbx Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAABCAAdFiEEA6TL67gupaZ9nzhT/y5nonf44foFAmiJgPgACgkQ/y5nonf4 4fraZhAApJo0TCgSjFHuLLDOsTetAdFO45PwxZuwQKo9Q490cI3o8cJdOjjb0S8Z 9vouPbkv1ffTN0dTqnUhJajcpRgXKXyvxA83F7qJDin+p87rZcBpKlnTbeQrm2Rt 0J3EcsaAsCIlwgeLtpdcvYBEWlC5i4ffw62sQN8R+ip1A1p6cNEmIzonq+PZrZF3 lZXgEGd9ubOwjOwKq7ZEduZJoCn1j5CXoNN/zYQQVNCTVDTEnRncEj8TUp/4qt5W f3W4MZZUqRD6Z7s66T4etYuju9gcDK/OhZ9oaA0/v7XmMhzTK15EegjjrW7epDZc hBCHd/yboD5Q1mj+Af9pz2ohC5pnU7iC9I2c+MvX2BNB2J+yRUQuHP9GXVIUOsb2 N1AtCRiaudzCV/66CW4tERIwwmZJ+61Tiy4JgHn07IIO8+/lRt4mALK28yYG+uGq OzQG1Q72z3S9JkyVokkA9L1WN+jplgdIfOsW72GlQqfjr6h7uHkiSUNKQ9wOOcpZ oq7lY7Fon1pQmolK8kVT4k28trgfIewtyDYU3vLflrVgD6M/+sFJ2vHIpLHkZevA nvw3tBWUjT3O0ZRNGtudLwsd5LnqSJ5D0mdeJwWXizDIjvCcVE0IHqVJpL3uZUPn iEmGMu7Ida7OzyLCHjsSu6IHvYiWIofxRbpLN0qEKI9/PKOLGaM= =ivPd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --z6ngwkyglkjghwbx-- From nobody Wed Jul 30 07:30:26 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsP512L69z63KDb; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: from smtp.freebsd.org (smtp.freebsd.org [96.47.72.83]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.freebsd.org", Issuer "R11" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsP511Y5jz3vJt; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753860629; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fOzBqJ2qCkbKRriCPjhNrcHMOmu1jN9f8QsFsPAuuMc=; b=C6Hwj/WJM4Q5RCs2XSwOBT1lgpAttuQWRJ0SzmBllxcvy8gkmN2PjPqPQedbx8yZNnaJIq UDQkXmReYFrrchh5VpAruvZ9wwB8SxQ5fvfH8vmgMlHT67G3sT4WWNzVb4eRkFolE03FVI 0245pKF1EwoBBV3qhWCPBGgNqmGQOQeZUgdGryAlilj8JyqNzIV1l4iOY4LAZfFf8xC1ET 0dcqjbjtUuW0NyFw/ARKFawVPFdroF+EeP2hEfM84MtnBF/y/ER8Z5Tw6ykq3IlxucXMuW blaqSPIbFseGwNEcBq1TKDfmYKLw9DcxlWMiVWFMlWtDpuRUYAp9+uUa5HP4hQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=freebsd.org; s=dkim; t=1753860629; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=fOzBqJ2qCkbKRriCPjhNrcHMOmu1jN9f8QsFsPAuuMc=; b=rpbGzbplGAA99CYXa/Xy4sDBXsGfwWdxx688B56uV2AtNKhvZQyeH/gEas1X0KC4nT/Dao wUpRiYdGfCA0VFl+I2F1IaW/cADc4bH4KuP+AxjAz/G7G8nmLspM/UMn/smrDWGfIL9MNz YW4J+FwW8lxg617Tul/Bz0AobT0pKwBcG2lmdPdP8E4qg6UCD/BKH+If0XvOSNrjIOnfYi PnXTA2EUuOvZEOp9dbtOW93kFkFSqi4uY1KeZUQXxI25RdZpnSIvXNZk+HZwMTk5svhGgM T+Wu0LWz4/t5iVvYu2/DOD5zVfjs7QMllvTpZV58+nyDA6imMrEsx1m++zNkBg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; s=dkim; d=freebsd.org; t=1753860629; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qc9D9LXcrHX90lVlOblzJInEf26Ow0hAHG6EksEfNbfGIMVroHmbs6RAkYmfiaydYQ+e5B WdTpvgYqGjBcbVGqamT01aMl53pzo5gXbeI1+9x6OyYcDJ3XcOyEbLWxdrAb3fnBRpBVfL znRkNq/lRMl7jJ3WFuJr8i6rJQeodApbY7NDnLrrkNctNwK7BJz2VM31Pgtaw9hJ/dctHv OWwIiyEW/LvMzYPzlZWyHsKGRQgvQBV1srcp7E/TY9hKydxKmweGE7oBIbbXUJlSyQLf9/ xxh8jpi/qqZZrcoDxKAWaJEArjmt0oXr/y8DEDdmneUrcJpEt7O6diLrdKl3yw== Received: from b.nours.eu (b.nours.eu [54.38.177.57]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) (Authenticated sender: bapt) by smtp.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4bsP5071cLzrP6; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 07:30:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from bapt@freebsd.org) Received: by b.nours.eu (Postfix, from userid 1001) id B09C290F57; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 09:30:26 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 09:30:26 +0200 From: Baptiste Daroussin To: vermaden Cc: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org, freebsd-stable@freebsd.org, freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org, freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Message-ID: <2rpjsqnjda4s5ks6nye3cywec5numok6qrhpnniteawusr7wkg@du4fwkss2iyw> References: List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: On Wed 30 Jul 02:28, vermaden wrote: > Hi, > > after short discussion here: > - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 > > I got REALLY concerned. > > One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. untouchable is really subjective and has always been, there are so many build options and one of the selling point for many is the customizability, in particular for the wildly deploy use case of appliances. But even on desktops people keeps tweaking the build options... > > Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. > > But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! > > Consider this command: > > # pkg delete -af > > What it does? > > It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. No it remove all the packages. semantic matters. > > What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? > > It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: > > - FreeBSD-clibs > - FreeBSD-runtime This is why the vital flag are designed for. > > All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > You do not even have vi(1) editor ad /rescue is separate not protected FreeBSD-rescue package and its also removed. > > WTF?! > > POLA is the principle that made FreeBSD such predictable system. Where is the POLA now? > > Why the same *pkg delete -af* command on 'classic' FreeBSD system without PKGBASE only removes all third party packages and the same *pkg delete -af* literally destroys most of the FreeBSD PKGBASE Base System? > > Its crazy ... Before jumping straight into making a drama, maybe ask for the plan? or discuss with people involved, or even better propose some help? The plan is the following for years: either create meta packages which will be flagged as vital for various combinaison of pkgbase: base, base-minimal, base-oci etc., etc. and use groups (marked as vital as well) if they are ready by then. This part has been delayed because: groups are now ready yet in pkg but might be there by the time 15.0-RELEASE is there. Bapt From nobody Wed Jul 30 18:30:20 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bsgkj1lJ8z62tQr; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:30:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo2.interia.pl (smtpo2.interia.pl [217.74.67.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bsgkh3dbXz486W; Wed, 30 Jul 2025 18:30:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Wed, 30 Jul 2025 20:30:20 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: Shawn Webb Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , pete@nomadlogic.org, bapt@freebsd.org, bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs, shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.6 Message-Id: List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1753900229; bh=djkOPwrNAVqNGFcCLZkRkLUIzvDo43fITXN3/GIUE8Q=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=rfOJC389yFqT3fqgLJdP3z94yCzwQiPn5zqL1ujyioGDQBjeyq7YbJ8QUqxXxaMOV h9gY9QmHvtIIWXnxkV2iJn91qMxO8lPpGjUAeNmcR7hc3NRW2GKPF9GxECjAObeKPo /8dDbN94gE2c4FMDbqJunoZkcRYC/ZmSqNKdVod0= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bsgkh3dbXz486W X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] Hi. I have only two proposals that seem sensible. (1) Keep pkg(8) for third party packages with /etc/pkg and /usr/local/etc/pkg and /var/db/pkg dirs for configuration. Use separate pkgbase(8) with /etc/pkgbase and /usr/local/etc/pkgbase and /var/db/pkgbase dirs for managing PKGBASE packages. By pkgbase(8) I have the same pkg(8) project in mind - just renamed as pkgbase(8) and with */pkgbase dirs instead of */pkg. (2) My other idea is to 'mark' all FreeBSD Base System packages as 'vital' - so they are never removed automatically - but if someone wants to remove them with additional force option - then I assume he knows what he is doing. I would prefer (1) over (2) if you ask me. As for additional groups like base-minimal or base-standard - I do not have anything against such additional features or layers - its not related to the main topic IMHO - that with 'classic' FreeBSD the *pkg delete -af* removes only third party packages and with PKGBASE FreeBSD it removes almost all system rendering it unbootable/unusable. Hope that helps. Regards, vermaden Temat: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature Data: 2025-07-30 4:18 Nadawca: "Shawn Webb" <shawn.webb@hardenedbsd.org> Adresat: "vermaden" <vermaden@interia.pl>; DW: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org; freebsd-stable@freebsd.org; freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org; freebsd-current@freebsd.org; > >> On Wed, Jul 30, 2025 at 02:28:35AM +0200, vermaden wrote: >> Hi, >> >> after short discussion here: >> - https://github.com/freebsd/pkg/issues/2485 >> >> I got REALLY concerned. >> >> One of THE features and selling points of a FreeBSD UNIX system is the 'untouchable' Base System. >> >> Without PKGBASE all the features are preserved. >> >> But when You convert to PKGBASE its ... GONE! >> >> Consider this command: >> >> # pkg delete -af >> >> What it does? >> >> It removes all third party packages on 'classic' FreeBSD system without touching the FreeBSD Base System. >> >> What the same "pkg delete -af" command does on a PKGBASE FreeBSD system? >> >> It kills/destroys almost all of the FreeBSD Base System and leaves only two PKGBASE packages called: >> >> - FreeBSD-clibs >> - FreeBSD-runtime >> >> All the rest of Base System is GONE. Destroyed. > > Hey vermaden, > > As mentioned in the GitHub ticket, it appears there might be some room > for discussion on which base packages ought to be marked vital and if > the current list (of two) should be expanded. > > I suspect there could also be room for discussion on technical > measures pkg could adopt to help mitigate issues like this. > > I myself don't have much in the way of suggestions on either topic of > discussion. I'm simply hoping this email moves the needle forward in a > positive direction. > > Thanks, > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > Signal Username: shawn_webb.74 > Tor-ified Signal: +1 303-901-1600 / shawn_webb_opsec.50 > https://git.hardenedbsd.org/hardenedbsd/pubkeys/-/raw/master/Shawn_Webb/03A4CBEBB82EA5A67D9F3853FF2E67A277F8E1FA.pub.asc > > From nobody Thu Jul 31 01:57:47 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bssft3zD6z63JFP; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=MUrk=2M=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (elsa.codelab.cz [94.124.105.4]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bssft0J4Wz42YM; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 01:57:58 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from SRS0=MUrk=2M=quip.cz=000.fbsd@elsa.codelab.cz) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from elsa.codelab.cz (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6DD0ED788C; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 03:57:49 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1753927069; bh=mo+1jCPOOufSZDShDRfcOArmT4gCGXwdDnBiO9FIrOg=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=oZgXAoq9Zg6SoBHwttz/gmZYEoiklFES4iNzru7PVSJqtDQKxT6atHTzpT8qOw7Ds dOvYuwrYQm2tWbyWETrTqP7dSHifUHcmG0IozPV2dtVNbrJYYnaRNjVVaePLUiqbrQ ZUJRTPFhk/oCJviuhv7IuWKQ9FaFeawEQeSLBrUs= Received: from [192.168.145.49] (ip-89-177-27-225.bb.vodafone.cz [89.177.27.225]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by elsa.codelab.cz (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 14AABD7888; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 03:57:48 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=quip.cz; s=private; t=1753927068; bh=mo+1jCPOOufSZDShDRfcOArmT4gCGXwdDnBiO9FIrOg=; h=Date:Subject:To:Cc:References:From:In-Reply-To; b=pJMyCgDb1UPaQwNNIbGpTAR52zgdRcOG+K3zop2dbhzc3iEgjro5tbDA66adupJTL fUBEs1kBWdsnXGQ6ybKaFLzw8jt2IF5WHG2620/BCnUltbDGQu9CHUpzxG1jZS6ZTx UHg5Q3F9fUhIbDoJFUx4zkFS82Msau5sfKcb4TOA= Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 03:57:47 +0200 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: PKGBASE Removes FreeBSD Base System Feature To: vermaden , Shawn Webb Cc: "freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-stable@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-pkg@freebsd.org" , "freebsd-current@freebsd.org" , pete@nomadlogic.org, bapt@freebsd.org, bane@pmf.uns.ac.rs References: Content-Language: en-US From: Miroslav Lachman <000.fbsd@quip.cz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bssft0J4Wz42YM X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:42000, ipnet:94.124.104.0/21, country:CZ] On 30/07/2025 20:30, vermaden wrote: > Hi. > > I have only two proposals that seem sensible. > > (1) > > Keep pkg(8) for third party packages with /etc/pkg and /usr/local/etc/pkg and /var/db/pkg dirs for configuration. > > Use separate pkgbase(8) with /etc/pkgbase and /usr/local/etc/pkgbase and /var/db/pkgbase dirs for managing PKGBASE packages. By pkgbase(8) I have the same pkg(8) project in mind - just renamed as pkgbase(8) and with */pkgbase dirs instead of */pkg. > > (2) > > My other idea is to 'mark' all FreeBSD Base System packages as 'vital' - so they are never removed automatically - but if someone wants to remove them with additional force option - then I assume he knows what he is doing. > > I would prefer (1) over (2) if you ask me. I would also like to separate it. Use one command to update (upgrade) 3rd party packages and another to update (upgrade) base packages. It is our workflow for the last 25+ years thus running one command to update both is really unexpected and unwanted. Kind regards Miroslav Lachman > As for additional groups like base-minimal or base-standard - I do not have anything against such additional features or layers - its not related to the main topic IMHO - that with 'classic' FreeBSD the *pkg delete -af* removes only third party packages and with PKGBASE FreeBSD it removes almost all system rendering it unbootable/unusable. > > Hope that helps. > > Regards, > vermaden From nobody Thu Jul 31 11:09:32 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bt5vm3mnRz63lLT for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:09:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Received: from FR5P281CU006.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-germanywestcentralazlp170120004.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f403:c20c::4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (secp384r1) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bt5vl1wmQz46k9 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:09:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of hausen@punkt.de designates 2a01:111:f403:c20c::4 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=hausen@punkt.de; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=punkt.de; arc=pass ("microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1") ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=ZhaJs19F6ZjaL8S+2dvjrksr7L61IkpvTVQVZof+N8UXEtOXum5Q7jfcsnkXuUEJcsKfX/oP5hpmfkG+12Mw5vU+J9HeUvtsv5gTkCflDFvYBuXpFoKo0TCueHKyL/Dl6pOLrqWua7kr704XymNhlxJgnVmAYtdo/5m2AOqD/yy2lkKvh/TcJOdtWJwFB4bmuE93OphCEt7Rf0RB58ZqHfAY1Y0Qo7lXm3VfhG2+rcZdQQ24oIYo+dIcdmQm5Fz1DiXuWfceWJ9HqT51lM92mWmXK4XyvlTQccWvDFCGbhbOCCkjlGwUYqF9TRD8CjlmxFQgOfZ+a6WKMlCOMkGS9w== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=yuLloZbSrLUpj4gSVpplSAGgciBluotqhKuCTrrCx7w=; b=o5+AtYP3yDWDM3RZOyUA899Og56fX8KJhMVAOEMSD7fe32VyS5rNuy3ZAbqtJw9bEdhUT/yQxWbWOZft+CQz4cH8/A2Y56GP4Je/rSc8PplbD06OKS/SLU1yMPUBRmDfzya5AaaeFC49Fv3Q+8NCtAbN94VDwO4qwHLnWgjTsNYHjUHDVjSX/OA2e/FfRTY76IUyh6rHEUg9arM3pWkOI1J4vuxXl2SAAcKf5p/+wvo4dZa0T1fAFua1n9F2QNo0WwRLv45QRGHsECIWnXgPsasxI6XRXbmNUf3D46zVJEyhtBAsOOqxMb3uFph4g4y5gFvgv1whkX8WUKIJvfnI3Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=punkt.de; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=punkt.de; dkim=pass header.d=punkt.de; arc=none Received: from BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:b10:2d::7) by FR4P281MB3512.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:d8::12) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8989.14; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:09:33 +0000 Received: from BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::d3b4:7f52:df34:f8e7]) by BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::d3b4:7f52:df34:f8e7%7]) with mapi id 15.20.8989.013; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:09:32 +0000 From: "Patrick M. Hausen" To: Freebsd Stable Subject: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? Thread-Topic: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? Thread-Index: AQHcAguXSLxNx9aA1EWUTJEiZfyA3A== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:09:32 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BEZP281MB3159:EE_|FR4P281MB3512:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 7505af56-047b-48d3-f4e4-08ddd022ba4c x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|1800799024|376014|10070799003|366016|38070700018; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?utf-8?B?dmVLcHZhemJTaU1tS0w4Z3Q5aVBIY1U4SmNlM3MwalZqSlV6ZitMTTdHcUcr?= =?utf-8?B?aWlLZytLY2hIUkV4UFFRWVIwelN6STR2aUg4WDZEM1ZqOFN6U2Uwdk1lZXVh?= =?utf-8?B?Ymx4QlFhM3VYRW1NRmUxbnhlaXZpMk85aW5Gb0dBcjg0M3FLc0llYlVxMmdz?= =?utf-8?B?L2ZpeGt3SHpwL29DRlRveTM4UlUvcmRBVlJCR2pnRzJzaVNjVnRmUzZ1Q0Jw?= =?utf-8?B?USsyUDlHT1NBTU0zdUxITkxMVGl5YW5wMnFRMTlqa2FpQVhYUXRUcXpFcFVF?= =?utf-8?B?SFRiL3laMTh5TnZVVFlNTGYrWVlKaHVqRzltd0N2QWFHdkFmMyttNmJKS2s4?= =?utf-8?B?R2VIbmpMZjhCZlBITWFBNkJoSnY2RytJVEUyQUMrbXhvQWlRTzBET2JNenYw?= =?utf-8?B?ZkpGZWt3QlJ5c3owTTBadTIzRVBqTGlpS1FYNHF1K21IOGZWSTRmaGMwbjBl?= =?utf-8?B?UVE4eHpFeFBnaWFzWXdlM2RiMXBzbHRjM0ZFcDMvSlRzZkFrVkVKVmJtT3Bt?= =?utf-8?B?SUUzVVJmeWdxUDB1R0xtaUN3ZW1TTmNHbERXZnlHRzFRSGt1cEtkZThmOFRS?= =?utf-8?B?TDc3c2VKcytBaGc4QlQwMm5rQ1hGUmY1U3dGeElmVm1QdXgwaW5IM2xGSnd6?= =?utf-8?B?ZTN2MHBCOFhKRFV4ZVpUM3dKdERxeDdKdm9YMEZHaU9lTWcyQ2RQMzZHdDZ3?= =?utf-8?B?UXZoOHJsWE41bUhoWVFlWmJOU3F2QWF3dTdORlQ4YjA2NldZSDl0dFcrOVhK?= =?utf-8?B?WmxOSVR2M0xHSlU3MjZmSXdwSHFJeGRpbmR0RE5WaXNTR01ZMTJmbDMvZUk5?= =?utf-8?B?d3lzc1hjQzh1MjdVeFdZTHFRTmFRTGhpbWlYMy92ZHBEcGptcmJURDZSQ3Yv?= =?utf-8?B?L2ZMdTRNajlta2dBUVBPWHNhYmlJNmtBNVNQU1B6K1pGTWJ2K3k3R2NMNW1O?= =?utf-8?B?SjJsemJHYVNGUXBwb1krcFlCRkQ4Z2JOcEhBeVJueWd0ZVpHblNKbXg5YWhE?= =?utf-8?B?YnBPblQwa05zaVMrdjUxb3oxdHR1THhTZFRBak1BYW9FSU9LeGZQWERDQmdD?= =?utf-8?B?TlFha0ZXeXRPL3o0UlpxaFk0N3hLMzdQV2Z3bGp4SU5ZQlZUNElhR3ZYaDlt?= =?utf-8?B?cllSeWU2SGVYU2FER3crdEhtd1dUaW9VU29Ra29HY1VyNkgrZ0dncGh1Nllz?= =?utf-8?B?QTVHRi9CeUxyclV0U1haMmE4YmZjVEk0d09MRkVibEJsaVlncEtXeXNFbTlh?= =?utf-8?B?b1VjVGRZdlFobUtRVmZMUEE4MDBBTFltOUVYSFl6RmoxQ2hXbW5qR3FwdlJp?= =?utf-8?B?aDhGdS9OSzY2MWlVQzg2SjBMTGV3S3BaVW5mOUk2bHRpbWV5U3Mwc0F3UW5R?= =?utf-8?B?SHh0L2JXTCtUNnRUbE9OaDZRYmVpa0ZUQzNoM2poMVljdGcwQ25IeEFLMzRu?= =?utf-8?B?MjRnaEtnaFVScG5iQ0U1MGx5L1hvQkhXMTVBbkJYMkUyOEdTaG5wSE11QXEz?= =?utf-8?B?dEdmNU43WWp1enpjV3d0N3lWTnlLbHQ4WlNzcXhlRElSSnFsOUl2SjF5N25S?= =?utf-8?B?b0xEaVdwSEEydDJNQXNwYjJhelAvWW1hWm9qQWRMeHoxTTYyZC83bWpXeGpY?= =?utf-8?B?dmlqL1lWdzFHS0plL3pmUlAweFYrYlloYzJiMGpNK2ozVDhpU1NDOGFWSys4?= =?utf-8?B?b0RheThaQjZGYll3MmNWSUJYc3dEcXA4eWZvdUJvdVlxT1U5eEgwMHdPSkVQ?= =?utf-8?B?eE4vbEllRTdIOEk4M1M5K09ua2RUbm5pYi80Y040cjdkZklUcjN3N1pxa1pt?= =?utf-8?B?WThBRzdxczJYenVSMTBVd1VOOE1yZUovd0p3Q25hZ3V3UEk2dFpBOTFGS0ZT?= =?utf-8?B?cGN1bnhTSkZoc0dIS2U5VUx4bG9uY2hwN2R5eDZzWE1lU2NkMWtVNFBZMWVF?= =?utf-8?Q?jv0Qs/ZfYik=3D?= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(1800799024)(376014)(10070799003)(366016)(38070700018);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?a0F0N0Z2Z0hHVnYybWphcXFRNGlSSnNaZkY2SHFoeExSY2oxRDdCdE80S01i?= =?utf-8?B?MFcwVDdidHo5N3RDbjlBN0d1RkFvMXdmVVZOdUlyZFljQWhuMVVUSFN1ZUFt?= =?utf-8?B?d2ZodHhFZUIrN2hTc1FYbU4vUGdkcG9NUG9DaExMWWR2NFZsR3lXek1Ua3M1?= =?utf-8?B?ZjduUnhqdVR1c2cvT3VKZzJscCtsSDM1RUlLcVRaclFjVG5XNFE2RnZWakp3?= =?utf-8?B?cmNhZjBMeWhsTVFZK2ZKWUorZlE4MmJJSmVEbXFtd3BaTEVpWCswUmw0SEdE?= =?utf-8?B?c2FCRXNkL2FnRzFzTENtUFRrK1Z2TnZHKzJvZU9NZGZienlJTUcxUUROTTV4?= =?utf-8?B?UlFDV04xdmdMMUtBMlkxRGVxcHY1RmtWU2ovdWJZOVVZdUdnWWpTbUR2L3Nj?= =?utf-8?B?MndHcnpRY3Q3Nys2SndyTWNoZTI1SjBTdmNiNnJibVZ1RlFNMEY2V3lxOEs2?= =?utf-8?B?c0I3Z0xPSkxHK1NoU2lZSkNaR0lySVQ4bndlS2JoZlRmeUVNd3B1M0xybVVJ?= =?utf-8?B?SkVmOWZCOHJwQzBSQWsvS01oVVNOd3pINUxIZ2pseVFyMGhXczkxUkRzVm1y?= =?utf-8?B?SUkxUGZ3dExLVXBKaURTcTQ0ZnlUWGlkb053ZnI5WmZxQWN1WUdWdXBJUG8z?= =?utf-8?B?SDcxQnJWTG9PRHdwOWp3Z1FaOGh6ZjdTVHJndU1yQy9jOGpkOFNGS3YxUldN?= =?utf-8?B?eFYvMHBHNEh3WStEeFFOSVdHMnVyM2Rpc3Z6OUZSYUlZc2VWTWczbldUK0pO?= =?utf-8?B?Rzd6VDVMZE95VFQvQXE4SDRWQVJsdEJ5dXVrQmxnN2dkOUFKbFRSQmp6eUdG?= =?utf-8?B?YUFCVWdWTWV1VG1ETUFTUENiQzRjZVhqYy9QSFNqTUl0aVo3Qm5KK3dTTHJq?= =?utf-8?B?SW50SXFiR2hXdEREUnkwUGpyRWV2RVAxcmF3eFZlSHdvc0gyaDRZQVhPVndt?= =?utf-8?B?ZnF6MTNzc1V6VVRabFJyR0pISVVtUjB4cTFKTkF4cnRvYzJ4THhXcVc5UjhH?= =?utf-8?B?RUgrNHFYeGI5SW9HUnpoS1RCMTlaTHNZQkhnNmVPK3BnVkJtRWVxaDRyRzFs?= =?utf-8?B?WDQvVndhYk5HSmhxOElEOHFoazVrWnREZ1pSSHEzUEhHQmRsNDFaMWU3UnZD?= =?utf-8?B?QzdKQ25Id1hvTVhMLzhNTW9LVHBZQTU4Q1dYMnZoRkxDT3U2b1RIQXdQc0do?= =?utf-8?B?Y1pWY2RGYTBsVzNKck5EdzdlNXpsdEN4aFN0TmxNV05KUm45OVVhNjNkSncw?= =?utf-8?B?aHpSdG9BT2xFYWtKZGVKMXRTTnYzenVkK2ZIZ0NldlV6cWV1WlVZbjU0QmVm?= =?utf-8?B?Q1REaElVUS9kZVBrNUNtV2lpR2VRSTVvVnpNcjgwSmhTZU0zUG05YlZzWmhY?= =?utf-8?B?SC9aSi93R0NVZkxDbEtVYkY2eXBVeFV0R1dBeGFjVEpYZ0pvZGRhNmcyZkZX?= =?utf-8?B?RmtHQVlZOGpaaE9xdXF1dzZCZ2ZTTjJ3cDRPWS9QTTdWVCs3blByRzJ5V2Vl?= =?utf-8?B?RTRhVkhSeU9aRHpsZTZzeXR6YThDNFZ4QkRSU2M3dE5wTlZXdG01dnNLdVNN?= =?utf-8?B?SDZJdW16dnRiME51S0hBcjdacVZzbktxaUduK0NSL2FHeHoraTBQc2hJdmtI?= =?utf-8?B?QUdna3ZEQzhuUERaMWxzak9lQnNscWxOVURMbjgyaUduWW9OOEEzMytodlRl?= =?utf-8?B?K1d6RllhNGl5dmljL3AwQzAwbGd0SThDSUtORzJGZmRkY21aL2ZYWkg0UWR1?= =?utf-8?B?bWxhbmRGSkVaTVJId3pYRVRPQXRzNXFlMkVHcVZtL29HTG8zT1JINVlmYU9N?= =?utf-8?B?L1E2dml4SHlhWjY5Vks0UnhFbi9xL0RtMnc0eXdJS3BHTnZvdXRiM1ZpVXpu?= =?utf-8?B?clV1V043K2J0Rmc1TVNsOE1ZaDVlN3BlVFhxWS9IREJoZDB6MUh3VzhnVEl4?= =?utf-8?B?ZEt1bWpMek1veXZ6eERxRUkxSHA4ZW9CWEhha2puZnk0QzF6VTVSOFFGaTJ2?= =?utf-8?B?bFpsaEpnUDdDbDJON0Z3LzZ2UVlsTFVVNUt1UERHSGE1eGt6QVUvWnE3SDFy?= =?utf-8?B?ditjbkZXTWZvRlFnTFdsN01SL0R4bWFjY1NMQUF5VEIwWTA2QlZBVVp4UWFa?= =?utf-8?B?Vmd3UzlzTUV3emloVDR0NjcvUjNaTVhNajNuaFJabmxQQ3dEU1NKdUFsQm5R?= =?utf-8?Q?gdBPf/gnATncizMP0o/UVB+vXGcveoLcpLiX8AhETAqw?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <31455A3C81E3CD49838ADE79590C8BC6@DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: punkt.de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 7505af56-047b-48d3-f4e4-08ddd022ba4c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jul 2025 11:09:32.9434 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d1aa1808-3734-45fc-a490-f8ba49028756 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: wbogyh59hIWrUc/KTrmzyphrlvJnK5mX+iulY6L3267czEvzeipe84CAzEoO2FL4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: FR4P281MB3512 X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.43 / 15.00]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector10001:i=1]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.980]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.75)[-0.747]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[punkt.de,none]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a01:111:f403:c000::/51]; MIME_BASE64_TEXT(0.10)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bt5vl1wmQz46k9 X-Spamd-Bar: --- SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpJdCdzIHRpbWUgdG8gdXBncmFkZSBvdXIgfjEwMCBob3N0cyAtIGFnYWluIC0g YW5kIEkgd291bGQgcmVhbGx5DQpsaWtlIHRvIGF0IGxlYXN0IHBhcnRseSBhdXRvbWF0ZSB0aGUg cHJvY2VkdXJlLg0KDQpDdXJyZW50IGlzc3VlIGlzIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBzZXF1ZW5jZToNCg0KCWZy ZWVic2QtdXBkYXRlIHVwZ3JhZGUgLXIgMTQuMyAtYiAvdG1wL2JlX21vdW50LkVrSngNCglmcmVl YnNkLXVwZGF0ZSBpbnN0YWxsIC1iIC90bXAvYmVfbW91bnQuRWtKeA0KCWZyZWVic2QtdXBkYXRl IGluc3RhbGwgLWIgL3RtcC9iZV9tb3VudC5Fa0p4DQoNCmluIG15IGV4cGVyaWVuY2UgaW5zaXN0 cyBvbiBhc2tpbmcgIkRvZXMgdGhpcyBsb29rIHJlYXNvbmFibGU/ICh5L24pIg0KaW50ZXJhY3Rp dmVseS4NCg0KQW5kIG5vIHZlcnNpb24gb2YNCg0KCWV4cG9ydCBBU1NVTUVfQUxXQVlTX1lFUz15 ZXMNCg0Kb3INCg0KCS0tbm90LXJ1bm5pbmctZnJvbS1jcm9uDQoNCnNlZW1zIHRvIGNoYW5nZSB0 aGF0Lg0KDQpBbSBJIG1pc3NpbmcgYW55dGhpbmc/IEkgbWVhbiwgYWZ0ZXIgdXBkYXRpbmcgYSBo YW5kZnVsIG9mIHRlc3QNCnN5c3RlbXMgLSBhbmQgZXNwZWNpYWxseSB3aGVuIHVwZ3JhZGluZyBp bnRvIGEgbmV3IEJFIC0NCml0IHNob3VsZCBiZSBwb3NzaWJsZSB0byBqdXN0IHJvbGxvdXQgdGhl IG5ldyByZWxlYXNlIHZpYSBBbnNpYmxlLg0KDQpUaGFua3MgYW5kIGtpbmQgcmVnYXJkcywNClBh dHJpY2sNCi0tIA0KcHVua3QuZGUgR21iSA0KUGF0cmljayBNLiBIYXVzZW4NCi5pbmZyYXN0cnVj dHVyZQ0KDQpTb3BoaWVuc3RyLiAxODcNCjc2MTg1IEthcmxzcnVoZQ0KDQpUZWwuICs0OSA3MjEg OTEwOTUwMA0KDQpodHRwczovL2luZnJhc3RydWN0dXJlLnB1bmt0LmRlDQppbmZvQHB1bmt0LmRl DQoNCkFHIE1hbm5oZWltIDEwODI4NQ0KR2VzY2jDpGZ0c2bDvGhyZXI6IERhbmllbCBMaWVuZXJ0 LCBGYWJpYW4gU3RlaW4NCg0K From nobody Thu Jul 31 13:31:51 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bt93j4Hy3z63rSl for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:32:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-lists@klop.ws) Received: from smtp-relay-int-backup.realworks.nl (smtp-relay-int-backup.realworks.nl [87.255.56.188]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bt93j1zbcz4MyZ for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:32:01 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ronald-lists@klop.ws) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from smtp-relay-int-backup.realworks.nl (crmpreview4.colo2.realworks.nl [10.2.52.34]) by mailrelayint2.colo2.realworks.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bt93X39Npz1jd; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 15:31:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=klop.ws; s=rw2; t=1753968712; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to; bh=5/BOAXjvyjSOI2uAEvYu0Tx+wTNq6w+LnOP7tDj52DQ=; b=bgRYsmutnx5KNiV5e8hOpmY/+/PyBvLSsQQ/BIMH4s8XCaLpmwR3Y0irOzKI5ng52wpHFK L5sFgfLnklS+BofAkMNSSpXIVVJ0YXSO2/tq5e7cZWNTJNS3TrtyZui88UGkTwdnubK262 ZqswdUZHFDTGrnb+VYZ40dovfM0i/DjihO3eHby6h+3RjyBShly5vgSOlP9Z0XiDq5rDuG Hn6xJoVTozB//F0mMQHPJmgsvuwArqf1biYeYlf97E8lQJI8YVLbV+QHxxdDSqJkpCz4lK GlKmgNhrxmbAv9Yorog6hgTSa2XtJxkJLCqJXdWY48cy/lw4uuGRtgViEYw5lw== Received: from crmpreview4.colo2.realworks.nl (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crmpreview4.colo2.realworks.nl (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25F8C1C015F; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 15:31:51 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 15:31:51 +0200 (CEST) From: Ronald Klop To: "Patrick M. Hausen" Cc: Freebsd Stable Message-ID: <1149107357.7472.1753968711944@localhost> In-Reply-To: Subject: Re: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_7471_185838132.1753968711941" X-Mailer: Realworks (759.60) X-Originating-Host: from (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by crmpreview4.colo2.realworks.nl [10.2.52.34] with HTTP; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 15:31:51 +0200 Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bt93j1zbcz4MyZ X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:38930, ipnet:87.255.32.0/19, country:NL] ------=_Part_7471_185838132.1753968711941 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, Did you check freebsd-rustdate from ports/pkg? It uses the same servers, bu= t is faster and a bit more user friendly IMHO.=20 Didn=E2=80=99t test your exact use case though. Regards, Ronald.=20 Van: "Patrick M. Hausen" Datum: 31 juli 2025 13:10 Aan: Freebsd Stable Onderwerp: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? >=20 >=20 > Hi all, >=20 > It's time to upgrade our ~100 hosts - again - and I would really > like to at least partly automate the procedure. >=20 > Current issue is that this sequence: >=20 > freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3 -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx >=20 > in my experience insists on asking "Does this look reasonable? (y/n)" > interactively. >=20 > And no version of >=20 > export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes >=20 > or >=20 > --not-running-from-cron >=20 > seems to change that. >=20 > Am I missing anything? I mean, after updating a handful of test > systems - and especially when upgrading into a new BE - > it should be possible to just rollout the new release via Ansible. >=20 > Thanks and kind regards, > Patrick > --=20 > punkt.de GmbH > Patrick M. Hausen > .infrastructure >=20 > Sophienstr. 187 > 76185 Karlsruhe >=20 > Tel. +49 721 9109500 >=20 > https://infrastructure.punkt.de > info@punkt.de >=20 > AG Mannheim 108285 > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 ------=_Part_7471_185838132.1753968711941 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,

Did you check freebsd-rustd= ate from ports/pkg? It uses the same servers, but is faster and a bit more = user friendly IMHO. 
Didn=E2=80=99t test your exact use= case though.

Regards,
Ronald. 
=

Van: "Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@pun= kt.de>
Datum: 31 juli 2025 13:10
Aan: Freebsd Stable <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>
Onderwer= p: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible?

Hi all,

It's time to upgrade our ~100 hosts - again - and I would really
like to at least partly automate the procedure.

Current issue is that this sequence:

    freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3 -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJ= x
    freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx
    freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx

in my experience insists on asking "Does this look reasonable? (y/n)"
interactively.

And no version of

    export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes

or

    --not-running-from-cron

seems to change that.

Am I missing anything? I mean, after updating a handful of test
systems - and especially when upgrading into a new BE -
it should be possible to just rollout the new release via Ansible.

Thanks and kind regards,
Patrick
-- 
punkt.de GmbH
Patrick M. Hausen
.infrastructure

Sophienstr. 187
76185 Karlsruhe

Tel. +49 721 9109500

https://infrastructure.punkt.de=
info@punkt.de

AG Mannheim 108285
Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein




------=_Part_7471_185838132.1753968711941-- From nobody Thu Jul 31 13:53:13 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4bt9XM3xLDz63tJx for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:53:23 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo69.interia.pl (smtpo69.interia.pl [217.74.67.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4bt9XL6FBvz3CLk for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:53:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 15:53:13 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? To: Patrick M. Hausen , Freebsd Stable X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=-8ADb99SqJX7eFMdNINO7" DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1753969994; bh=ePOACovfHpgl+pD5/UEyTTG6Dj/S8fmzq2ZJtfo16nI=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Ek/pTNMnf0fgwpRf0JRBTE9+QLzBeM7804Wtq5scvo30JoJOwjE6UcZeyiV2RkyQ7 2hw+t2hoSqmv1h3khxPQaONeNtQxYMIA0kclWnA7IHj6kZoGMqZtWnfgpnFtnqrEBM 218IVNPhtOAec4yJIyZxCYx3j48YuLN+/G/LA69E= X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4bt9XL6FBvz3CLk X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL] --=-8ADb99SqJX7eFMdNINO7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,the only 'workaround' I know is this:# yes | env PAGER=3Dcat freebsd-upd= ate fetch   --not-running-from-cron# yes | env PAGER=3Dcat freebs= d-update install --not-running-from-cronRegards,vermadenTemat: Non-interact= ive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible?Data: 2025-07-31 13:10Nadawca:= "Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@punkt.de>Adresat: "Freebsd Stable" <f= reebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; > Hi all, >=20 > It's time to upgrade our ~100 hosts - again - and I would really > like to at least partly automate the procedure. >=20 > Current issue is that this sequence: >=20 > freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3 -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx >=20 > in my experience insists on asking "Does this look reasonable? (y/n)" > interactively. >=20 > And no version of >=20 > export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes >=20 > or >=20 > --not-running-from-cron >=20 > seems to change that. >=20 > Am I missing anything? I mean, after updating a handful of test > systems - and especially when upgrading into a new BE - > it should be possible to just rollout the new release via Ansible. >=20 > Thanks and kind regards, > Patrick > --=20 > punkt.de GmbH > Patrick M. Hausen > .infrastructure >=20 > Sophienstr. 187 > 76185 Karlsruhe >=20 > Tel. +49 721 9109500 >=20 > https://infrastructure.punkt.de > info@punkt.de >=20 > AG Mannheim 108285 > Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein >=20 >=20= --=-8ADb99SqJX7eFMdNINO7 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,

the only 'workaroun= d' I know is this:

# yes | env PAGER= =3Dcat freebsd-update fetch=C2=A0 =C2=A0--not-running-from-cron
<= br># yes | env PAGER=3Dcat freebsd-update ins= tall --not-running-from-cron




Regards,
vermaden=



Temat: Non-interactive run of= `freebsd-update upgrade` possible?
Data: 2025-07-31 13:10
Nadawca: "= Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@punkt.de>
Adresat: "Freebsd Stable" <= ;freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; 

> Hi all,
>=20
> It's time to upgrade our ~100 hosts - again - and I would really
> like to at least partly automate the procedure.
>=20
> Current issue is that this sequence:
>=20
> 	freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3 -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx
> 	freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx
> 	freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx
>=20
> in my experience insists on asking "Does this look reasonable? (y/n)"
> interactively.
>=20
> And no version of
>=20
> 	export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=3Dyes
>=20
> or
>=20
> 	--not-running-from-cron
>=20
> seems to change that.
>=20
> Am I missing anything? I mean, after updating a handful of test
> systems - and especially when upgrading into a new BE -
> it should be possible to just rollout the new release via Ansible.
>=20
> Thanks and kind regards,
> Patrick
> --=20
> punkt.de GmbH
> Patrick M. Hausen
> .infrastructure
>=20
> Sophienstr. 187
> 76185 Karlsruhe
>=20
> Tel. +49 721 9109500
>=20
> https://infrastructure.punkt.de
> info@punkt.de
>=20
> AG Mannheim 108285
> Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Daniel Lienert, Fabian Stein
>=20
>



#icselection13 {width: 100% !important; height: 100% != important; padding-top: 0px !important; overflow: visible !important;} --=-8ADb99SqJX7eFMdNINO7-- From nobody Thu Jul 31 16:35:18 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btF7P0Smjz62n40 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 16:35:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Received: from smtpo73.interia.pl (smtpo73.interia.pl [217.74.67.73]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btF7M4mxpz3Tpc for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 16:35:27 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vermaden@interia.pl) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=interia.pl header.s=biztos header.b=TO82jr42; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vermaden@interia.pl designates 217.74.67.73 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vermaden@interia.pl; dmarc=pass (policy=quarantine) header.from=interia.pl Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:35:18 +0200 From: vermaden Subject: Re: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? To: Patrick M. Hausen , Freebsd Stable X-Mailer: interia.pl/pf09 In-Reply-To: References: X-Originating-IP: 45.148.42.1 Message-Id: List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=interia.pl; s=biztos; t=1753979719; bh=BxOZMaFeJEAXMDG1S9RLHWuHkL6JXoxzLaPLMcDAdy8=; h=Date:From:Subject:To:Message-Id:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=TO82jr42k2QjiwIJuoXXqTnec0XcbG13wbnu60TTCz9UqspA7/aXzUIyI0PAqWJIZ ppCOtziqXKEI5RT+Egs5S7oNOipZxgqO6Z+FbdFyXko76Hb0WE1uPhRyNrkFHvWsC4 XOaFx3/lZToteCvB/1fWMfTYfPg1ItY1PZzwxIBY= X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.98 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; DWL_DNSWL_LOW(-1.00)[interia.pl:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.948]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.57)[0.567]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[interia.pl,quarantine]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[interia.pl:s=biztos]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:217.74.64.0/22]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_VERYGOOD(-0.20)[217.74.67.73:from]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; ONCE_RECEIVED(0.10)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; SUSPICIOUS_AUTH_ORIGIN(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:16138, ipnet:217.74.64.0/22, country:PL]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[interia.pl]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[interia.pl:+]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ZERO(0.00)[0]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-stable@freebsd.org]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[interia.pl] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btF7M4mxpz3Tpc X-Spamd-Bar: - Hi, I will reply again w/o HTML to make this more readable ... The only 'workaround' I know is this: # yes | env PAGER=cat freebsd-update fetch --not-running-from-cron # yes | env PAGER=cat freebsd-update install --not-running-from-cron Regards, vermaden From nobody Thu Jul 31 18:40:20 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btHvc5byWz62tkb for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:40:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Received: from mail.infocus-llc.com (mail.infocus-llc.com [IPv6:2604:3a00:2:1::2:13]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btHvc1ZXsz3jwn for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:40:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from fullermd@over-yonder.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: from draco.over-yonder.net (c-174-180-135-60.hsd1.ms.comcast.net [174.180.135.60]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange x25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.tarragon.infocus-llc.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4btHvT3n1Nz3JQ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:40:21 -0500 (CDT) Received: by draco.over-yonder.net (Postfix, from userid 100) id 4btHvS6Lb2zthb; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:40:20 -0500 (CDT) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 13:40:20 -0500 From: "Matthew D. Fuller" To: Ronald Klop Cc: "Patrick M. Hausen" , Freebsd Stable Subject: Re: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? Message-ID: References: <1149107357.7472.1753968711944@localhost> List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <1149107357.7472.1753968711944@localhost> X-Editor: vi X-OS: FreeBSD User-Agent: Mutt/2.2.14 (2025-02-20) X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btHvc1ZXsz3jwn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:33069, ipnet:2604:3a00::/32, country:US] On Thu, Jul 31, 2025 at 03:31:51PM +0200 I heard the voice of Ronald Klop, and lo! it spake thus: > Van: "Patrick M. Hausen" > > > > It's time to upgrade our ~100 hosts - again - and I would really > > like to at least partly automate the procedure. > > > > Current issue is that this sequence: > > > > freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3 -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > > > > in my experience insists on asking "Does this look reasonable? (y/n)" > > interactively. > > Did you check freebsd-rustdate from ports/pkg? [...] As the author, I am clearly completely unbiased, so my agreement with such a suggestion is definitely a reliable argument-winner. Ahem. With that out of the way... freebsd-rustdate certainly _should_ do what you need, and I don't know any reason it wouldn't. It does work against all the same servers and data as freebsd-update. It uses the same config (at least the bits it supports). It also shares file storage (i.e., the stuff in /var/db/freebsd-update/files/), so one would see the files the other had downloaded. It doesn't share state, so one wouldn't see any pending updates to `install` from the other. A few notes for what seems to be your situation: - Non-interactivity was specifically a goal in the implementation. Obviously things like resolving conflicts need interaction, but that's part of why they're moved to a separate command; the basic fetch/upgrade/install commands don't take any interaction to run to completion. - The `install` command defaults to being very conservative; like freebsd-update, it installs one file at a time, and fsync()'s everything before moving on. That can take a while. If you're installing into something that's not the running system (like a new not-yet-active BE, or a subdir or jail or something), you can afford a little risk if the system crashes in the middle, so you could use - `install -s` to disable fsync(), which wastes way less time along the way, - `install -j` to use all those cores (and non-5400-rpm hard drive IOPS) that are just lying around, which can hide the fsync() delays as well, or - `install -sj` to get both. - (me, I tend to eat the risk even on live systems...) - Also, the `install` command has a `-a` argument to do all the potentially 3 steps (kernel, world, rm old libs) at once instead of taking multiple invocations. - Note that general arguments like `-b` are arguments to the base command, not the subcommand, so you'd be doing things like % freebsd-rustdate -b /tmp/bs_mount.EkJx upgrade -r 14.3-RELEASE The program has reasonable --help bits through the various commands. The webpage has longer docs for the commands, some stuff about differences from freebsd-update, and whatever other blathering I did at the time. And I'm certainly happy to give any help I can. -- Matthew Fuller (MF4839) | fullermd@over-yonder.net Systems/Network Administrator | http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/ On the Internet, nobody can hear you scream. From nobody Thu Jul 31 18:49:52 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btJ6p323kz62vTw for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:50:10 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Received: from mail.nomadlogic.org (mail.nomadlogic.org [66.165.241.226]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btJ6n63PHz3lf5 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:50:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from pete@nomadlogic.org) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=nomadlogic.org; s=04242021; t=1753987797; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=3AMwSfbyUfNfLQTDy1IUwPfzfQUjd8V8hvT1+W8PCUI=; b=yXfHrSQFYAaHmuJhq6tMyKHlulFpAL9UIRLEYCmr/cjXIRtntB77WMpBERkZ6POjDucZ0X mfuH043JBDlGLb1P38B6jhw16E6KDas+71Hdz0CLs+1vvXvp9c8kAfCbPyW3G/MfrN7Lqn +F9vzUmNnjJIF9aiFAxuy1OluWSpmwM= Received: from [192.168.1.182] (47-150-35-101.fdr01.snmn.ca.ip.frontiernet.net [47.150.35.101]) by mail.nomadlogic.org (OpenSMTPD) with ESMTPSA id e88ec026 (TLSv1.3:TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256:NO); Thu, 31 Jul 2025 18:49:57 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 11:49:52 -0700 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Subject: Re: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? To: "Patrick M. Hausen" , Freebsd Stable References: Content-Language: en-US From: Pete Wright In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btJ6n63PHz3lf5 X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:29802, ipnet:66.165.240.0/22, country:US] On 7/31/25 04:09, Patrick M. Hausen wrote: > Hi all, > > It's time to upgrade our ~100 hosts - again - and I would really > like to at least partly automate the procedure. > > Current issue is that this sequence: > > freebsd-update upgrade -r 14.3 -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > freebsd-update install -b /tmp/be_mount.EkJx > > in my experience insists on asking "Does this look reasonable? (y/n)" > interactively. > > And no version of > > export ASSUME_ALWAYS_YES=yes > > or > > --not-running-from-cron > > seems to change that. > > Am I missing anything? I mean, after updating a handful of test > systems - and especially when upgrading into a new BE - > it should be possible to just rollout the new release via Ansible. > i usually handle updating our fleet by just rebuilding the systems since i am on AWS and that's a more natural design pattern for them. there is this rc script included in the FreeBSD AMI's on AWS that automates applying patches via freebsd-update: firstboot_freebsd_update_run() { if ! checkyesno firstboot_freebsd_update_nonstandard; then case "`uname -r`" in *-BETA* | *-RC* | *-RELEASE*) ;; *) echo "Firstboot freebsd-update disabled on `uname -r`" return 0 ;; esac fi env HTTP_TIMEOUT=5 freebsd-update --not-running-from-cron fetch if [ -e /var/db/freebsd-update/`echo / | sha256`-install ]; then freebsd-update install echo "Requesting reboot after installing updates." touch ${firstboot_sentinel}-reboot fi } this tends to work pretty well in an automated fashion. but to be honest i'm looking forward to pkgbase as it will make automation and auditing *much* easier in cloud environments. -pete > Thanks and kind regards, > Patrick -- Pete Wright pete@nomadlogic.org From nobody Thu Jul 31 19:00:43 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btJMs3gfZz62vmr for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 19:01:29 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Received: from FR5P281CU006.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-germanywestcentralazlp170120004.outbound.protection.outlook.com [IPv6:2a01:111:f403:c20c::4]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (secp384r1) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "DigiCert Cloud Services CA-1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btJMs0JQgz3nJP for ; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 19:01:28 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from hausen@punkt.de) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector10001; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=nxLnDg02cFTKSVcJdd9gjIa02jL95C6GjYBfhFCbxZNzzN/k26kGlkOlBl0MNUriFS/Fk8S7EoJOSCiUvMh6nG65M4dxfU+7vhKBSwiSG/getmmpLNe5WZ8nuP3TQ9tjq8oUG1posgRP2wEheuHZkJiUWxRpXP/40NW7zNA7o4UhSDPItnWYof4lr+xB7jaLWJEni+89A81NQignemupl5aB65sBHxc8/NpmJAPaoUCjgpwu5hX8V6S2C9MtjVIuUIw8tVdywz7yxJwOpZWevN8M8nZw6uSzYOVIM5Vn4hVczD0+EtA8IMDLPT2Rzo8Xmq8hx7KRz55o8BIER39lAQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector10001; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0:X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-1; bh=hdpwD3bTsyQSxeQ6UlbT8Bcv4X3iFjTTSdPKhXfrngc=; b=j9ul3eA6NlWzjqlgzWASZlzXFmL5z1dbwu9l4xTTKroh+mxuh4Ip7C+4RLrERyuq3G/Pnf5bhbZJkueixfPrwCRiy+uDBP1le6SkX/bQhmKPSD9eN5qZx1i/iy4voyzhcSr+pxPM0iaUmyBkZMgP8LqQdCDlZCU7aZLuqyQg9L0v8KG5nI/ZmxMAV6r0poKM0CTj5Wk5XjnE+FPBT4Szdxz6eT2pHOSVVK5KZ7tVvMQ1fuGAuY3/O1CGZ2QwfhwWpBHvqPkbEmN5zsuB8VWGBPZsqRHb6DG92kS/msfAp35h85Ei4rg7DQxskJsc9kIdEsaFbgfpH4y33gqBK8lA3Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=punkt.de; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=punkt.de; dkim=pass header.d=punkt.de; arc=none Received: from BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:b10:2d::7) by FRYP281MB3257.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:d10:72::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.8989.14; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 19:00:44 +0000 Received: from BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::d3b4:7f52:df34:f8e7]) by BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM ([fe80::d3b4:7f52:df34:f8e7%7]) with mapi id 15.20.8989.013; Thu, 31 Jul 2025 19:00:43 +0000 From: "Patrick M. Hausen" To: Pete Wright CC: Freebsd Stable Subject: Re: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? Thread-Topic: Non-interactive run of `freebsd-update upgrade` possible? Thread-Index: AQHcAguXFkTysfQW8EqAARjbsS9GirRMk7QAgAAC/YA= Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2025 19:00:43 +0000 Message-ID: <91F4524F-E388-4499-9C0C-22FFF3C9DB5D@punkt.de> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: de-DE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BEZP281MB3159:EE_|FRYP281MB3257:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: f22412e9-64f6-400c-d144-08ddd0648d0e x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;ARA:13230040|376014|366016|1800799024|10070799003|38070700018; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?utf-8?B?dldiYnU1ZzRnckxXU2twNkpaYVpxc3doclM3SGFnUkN6MmgvQ1RPenFGZnR2?= =?utf-8?B?MlNXVTZybHR1akFaRWVsTytkNWtyRVJHUTRCdm5KMjZFSll0NG9iVS9xMVMy?= =?utf-8?B?bG5NOUZWVXZyWnV0RDdPbEhmeTNTVGQvWDVlSTB2NFhhZWcyMVI5dm9YRmwr?= =?utf-8?B?NUU4QWM4akhsY09tM05Wd0hRV3FQUjVVYllCMm1FWkFDUm1DYXFVc0dMYzQ2?= =?utf-8?B?ZkxmbXpWem5iY3YrK00rd3lOL3dsKzRuUmtOMGNTd2ErMjRMNkYxODNpbGJ4?= =?utf-8?B?UkYyZlc0VlZoZ0dHcWlpTmNDdkNhOHBDYk9idEpXTWVTTEVkWXV0eThadUVP?= =?utf-8?B?a2p3UW1yaGQ2YjhuSHhET0tyRWVMaVFhallnT3BDVEZ4ZTdjVlhwazE4SW5R?= =?utf-8?B?c1NHMFNlWUlpM0VscjdhWGFhL09iK3NTL0U4bmZ1YU5hcVdFckp6UzJ6SCtr?= =?utf-8?B?QU40WWdpRDNQSEJ6K2ZUWHkrUVhkeXRaTlJXV1Fhc29FU0NpdTdTOWc4Y2xJ?= =?utf-8?B?TjdzdC96L1M4Q0lmVUI5SzI1UUZ1L1lxencyR1hkNVVuMzhRZnhoaUxFckEr?= =?utf-8?B?SmhFbFZ6aTU3dnBGY1hBazBzd1hQM25qU0tTTVNEZG1vdlgvcW1xelEwaXV6?= =?utf-8?B?bzBCY2ZtUWs1NklnbEdqYWxBTlpVejIzSHJsY0ErWEFHNEdDbytwUmxYZDRo?= =?utf-8?B?WVpwaHFqSVBqcSs1a0NJVlNQTzNWcFVhVjdZT0MxeDZlQ3lqQ0ZpZ1RuVTlW?= =?utf-8?B?RlFDU2h2cS9UTmNneDkvTnJtWEpJVUNKdit6d0VMZ25WeENDaUVVUHpGZExq?= =?utf-8?B?T1U2bDdQaDIvZDQ4ZHBpSWlTQWhOZWlnTFZzcEhFYTVhdXl3bHlOaXoyMDFH?= =?utf-8?B?dDk4eW9PVG9XNlVRZVp1UmlDY05TZ0RIQzZINTRVMDN2ZnQxZEZqcG10SGpN?= =?utf-8?B?YWJnTEVhbkpWemd4YjU4UmlBUkhrNFZqUGNFN0d1ZFJoU0xFUXhxYm04ZXkw?= =?utf-8?B?c3ZLd3pLaElRTkwyZWt3cjQ2SXowejFLaVh2eFJXOVpBUU5rb3hsVzM5UzEv?= =?utf-8?B?WEJqdEtYVGxiNzViM0Y3bkFyN0ZZWmxWdkttRWFIUUJMMHdUaUNHL0VnRU9B?= =?utf-8?B?U1lSOENvcnhiQ3pnNGpqK1NsQXY5bmJhTGVxMkxtZU1FWGVyVFBEcEdtdUtU?= =?utf-8?B?ZjVPZEhYa2Z1TlpyUDlnRUJJOTRPTUxsNTI5ZFRLSFQzTkd1bUdHVk5iN1U0?= =?utf-8?B?OFdPejZtMzFsWm9FcWZGdnQyZHVFSW9qYzlXYVJEeXVyTXRldERoK0k0Vm9H?= =?utf-8?B?QUQ0MmNHdnJBOEJrQWVlSUhNa29NSXprakxBU245Q0J0R3RteVh3RDc4OHJK?= =?utf-8?B?UWNmTWV3YllkbHNxUXlYVWdJYjduZUJXQUlIU3UzOEFWblpuZ0h6QVFGUVBI?= =?utf-8?B?aUMwOXJ0R0tjWHA1ZlRFcXdGNHoxQkdvS1JQSEh1SUMyZEtoSXN1RUV2WnZC?= =?utf-8?B?a1hnblZnT2dSUUNXNjR1K1hnN0g1dmh3TGlDQ1dxSXVyNythK2VhSjNKeGJM?= =?utf-8?B?bG1Gdk0zb3F4eTVzRTZWMjM0V0EySHFEWjE1dUhlbklPb2UvdE94bmN6VlFJ?= =?utf-8?B?MG81dGlydnlEcHlOQ3hhT2NIeDgvR0pWQlc1OXZjcGxzYjNhZUlXY3BOUlpB?= =?utf-8?B?RUMxOGVaY0tBYnBHYkVvRERiYm5teWNLd0RTQWlMbXJ6R3JRdi9wNm9lUlQy?= =?utf-8?B?VG5GelZQMlQ4ZEo5Q3RBV3BlOS9ORmRxZFlydmVaY0VrcnplUjd5eURVRmo3?= =?utf-8?B?bzFaUlVyRWtrMGo0S3o0cjRJd1VXSi9WbVg2bU1HK01Uc1lRSUliMWJHTGN1?= =?utf-8?B?WHhKdzNZQUFLM3JMMlBsMDQ5eUtxbnAxWWplb1FxNkVYY2k4aEptUFBWTE9H?= =?utf-8?Q?ReEUngq8ics=3D?= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255;CTRY:;LANG:en;SCL:1;SRV:;IPV:NLI;SFV:NSPM;H:BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM;PTR:;CAT:NONE;SFS:(13230040)(376014)(366016)(1800799024)(10070799003)(38070700018);DIR:OUT;SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-chunkcount: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata-0: =?utf-8?B?T2FRV2hUejhNcEpmTUZoV3J6Q284Y1Y1Uk91QTlsNjR0ckhXRUcwdzdEUUU4?= =?utf-8?B?dWliZ29qRGpjSWdDam9GSHduclRhZHl4MVNyallDNXB5WUZSS2xQQytFQjA5?= =?utf-8?B?M0hqNzRWZTM3Q2dGa3lMalQrSFdvWmIrR3V0VUx2SUIrWHRxUElaVUdaY3Bu?= =?utf-8?B?TldzS2RSZGlTNEZYckNpTU1BS0F4Y3A1dU44b2plK3pNSHg2R2VWUnVuMTRM?= =?utf-8?B?Qm5UbkhWZkZXOFQzWVQ5QnVvaTk2cFVBZzUwaHBoZGtpcm42eHFnZ3pMbWtD?= =?utf-8?B?UmdYZ2FqVjFVbFg2RUswZk95WDlrMmJ6S01JZy9qNWE3eVBhY0VpNWZBeVY1?= =?utf-8?B?ZHVEQ0Jrd1FZKy9FNVBQeFYvYzNaOUFHZnJEa0x5MmVvdDJkY1BDS1dPOGpX?= =?utf-8?B?c2pyci9WVUxiZGFZKzNydUhaRlNwdXZGL0kvVTlSZFlyYW1CTjFzM2JKS0Vi?= =?utf-8?B?KytTckFWQ3NZVzFFbFB5Zy9taWo2cFVsSzllMHFnVjVNRUZ3WXlvTXBRV3JC?= =?utf-8?B?NUNpWGFjQWxlL2t2OFdsZkdCVXF0ZEtFKzZBbE1zQUZOMjFiSzFJUXJmYzNy?= =?utf-8?B?VkprQ3NsME9xY0czdzF2T1pmOGY0dC9YZFdqa1k4a29WTUdTU2FCTzVqdU1X?= =?utf-8?B?bVQ0dVZ2UTRlcWNWRUZ6b0IwR2JQVVA5TjVudTdna1FQbnBLV3NJbUNhMU9T?= =?utf-8?B?ZDFLUzcxNXJaSjAwdmdVQUtTcksrTHpPV2JjTFJmWlVod1FnOHdEVE95d1hN?= =?utf-8?B?NWE2Yy80d01oODI2Z1NkOWlTcUNNRlhqdmYyOXRoYW9lVmtLcXJ2eG1oTmJn?= =?utf-8?B?Q3NVSzhZWFZaRTRvUUtCeS91UXN6QTBsZm9WK2dPdXpXZEZxVUFhS3BDN2VM?= =?utf-8?B?MXBBQVJJTkNvcnNLbmZiSkM0bTZCbWhpekUrMFF6YXJzb210WFI3aW5yUnoz?= =?utf-8?B?VUZHMFRiV1VlRm5GSWZyVTJSczZJaFVoWmRLQWhNMS9ZeFQ4YjMybkNzNllR?= =?utf-8?B?UHVxZ29ueUdOWlhiNk9LTWkwbTNNdlpFcmpPZkYxWGpyUDd3dnN5bUYxZXM0?= =?utf-8?B?Z0lKRlNDWkZObmxPeEQ4RUdXNVl0ZEczbmVZSGo2WDIyQ3lIelVDck8wQUQ1?= =?utf-8?B?dFRKbWpsTnJIZXFWVmh1TFJuQVRZV3VpbUNvNVlyd1pMOGV2UG9xZ252K1pP?= =?utf-8?B?eE84TUg1VXQ0ekh3V1B1ZXFoNkRLZkxSWDFHeFhzaVlJMXJGalZLb0oxZ0pX?= =?utf-8?B?UkV6eFB5WnFia3hmcnNsTm95WmQ1Z0x0QVM1SkJkSmNtUHMyN0dwNkYybDho?= =?utf-8?B?V1p2STBUWUJvQ2oyT01XMThWVkoxRHdVOUtNb29wV0twNnZnbU82OXl1dUIx?= =?utf-8?B?ejNMNnZnZHlKa2E4bVk1RHIzTXU2VElwOHJqU3poTmxERnN6WURyVXR3VUVa?= =?utf-8?B?a2V1UzEvekV1K05IK0tkd1J4S0ZuOGo2SmR2MFFOVDRPcEF2Q1Q5NEdDcVc4?= =?utf-8?B?djhEWisxZndnRlo3dkJnR2lpL0RKS21ObjJlY1ZlRnRxT1MxTy9nbHczNEt6?= =?utf-8?B?UC9ONE9JVWkwekNUSy9oN01BRVFpM05vMUpVOG1kQXgrVUNhdS9RYjhONnND?= =?utf-8?B?UVJLa0VXd2RKWlBQL29VcThONjZzcFRuaGw0RSt4d2t2OGpJWmFRV0dOTW81?= =?utf-8?B?NjFURkphdisybzAvTEtmTXY0aUl5eVQ5a0I0eGwzUFdmNEk3eHVTYUJXRFU1?= =?utf-8?B?SUxQTUZCOWE2ZDYreCt3c2Q1SVVPODR0S01JSU9NaTJaSGJLc3FWL09KT3Vi?= =?utf-8?B?USt3VXVwakJJbmxxRTEvdmRvcW40UlQ2R09CZjBqSEdnQnBJZHAzeDZjM1pJ?= =?utf-8?B?ckh5c2h4NThCUWJEb2FmNDRxWERmS1hHSkVnRU81Vmh3TWZaY3pGM25MUFdI?= =?utf-8?B?dHBuWVhEeTFYMm1nVWU4WHlYRFpFNlkzNFZndWNQSWIwejBaR0owNzNkbGRE?= =?utf-8?B?Sm96cVRnV2d5cGxzZjBwZGdZY2h5c0VDSUZNV3dCei95UE5qWDRxL3AwemFJ?= =?utf-8?B?MXBjM0hqMTFoL3B3TUEvS21valhESUVlaGJoL2RNdE1YOGhMT0dUbVBOQTVq?= =?utf-8?B?cDA4SUJJQVZ0MjVYWXlsdWt4a1NXM0xhQkx5ejlVYyt0d2dyc3kzbElVbnc5?= =?utf-8?Q?Xg9sxi8HpDAYIkTfs3yAjqCyiDM3U8AJiOAOyKyWVhZL?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <2ACEDFE747E008418A1956CCE2A4ABC8@DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: punkt.de X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BEZP281MB3159.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: f22412e9-64f6-400c-d144-08ddd0648d0e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 31 Jul 2025 19:00:43.7825 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: d1aa1808-3734-45fc-a490-f8ba49028756 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: i0o/nJAiNdwLAY1Sui3tvkYbknwsGXH1gcD9ceFHoaHhD4i0Y2/s+kNrgwe8qE6p X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: FRYP281MB3257 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btJMs0JQgz3nJP X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:2a01:111:f000::/36, country:US] SGkgYWxsLA0KDQo+IEFtIDMxLjA3LjIwMjUgdW0gMjA6NDkgc2NocmllYiBQZXRlIFdyaWdodCA8 cGV0ZUBub21hZGxvZ2ljLm9yZz46DQo+IA0KPiBpIHVzdWFsbHkgaGFuZGxlIHVwZGF0aW5nIG91 ciBmbGVldCBieSBqdXN0IHJlYnVpbGRpbmcgdGhlIHN5c3RlbXMgc2luY2UgaSBhbSBvbiBBV1Mg YW5kIHRoYXQncyBhIG1vcmUgbmF0dXJhbCBkZXNpZ24gcGF0dGVybiBmb3IgdGhlbS4gDQoNCkdv b2QgYXBwcm9hY2ggYnV0IHdlIHJ1biBvbiBiYXJlIG1ldGFsIGJlY2F1c2Ugd2UgYnVpbHQgYSBw cml2YXRlIGNsb3VkDQpvbiB0b3Agb2YgRnJlZUJTRCBuYW1lZCAicHJvU2VydmVyIi4gQW5kIGF0 IGxlYXN0IGV2ZXJ5IGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtb250aHMNCnlvdSBtdXN0IHVwZ3JhZGUgdGhlIGhvc3Rz LCB0b28uDQoNCkZvciB0aGUgamFpbHMgd2UgaGF2ZSBtb250aGx5IGZ1bGx5IGF1dG9tYXRlZCB1 cGRhdGVzIHJlZGVwbG95aW5nIGV2ZXJ5dGhpbmcNCmJ1dCB0aGUgY3VzdG9tZXIncyBwZXJzaXN0 ZW50IGRhdGEuDQoNCktpbmQgcmVnYXJkcywNClBhdHJpY2sNCi0tIA0KcHVua3QuZGUgR21iSA0K UGF0cmljayBNLiBIYXVzZW4NCi5pbmZyYXN0cnVjdHVyZQ0KDQpTb3BoaWVuc3RyLiAxODcNCjc2 MTg1IEthcmxzcnVoZQ0KDQpUZWwuICs0OSA3MjEgOTEwOTUwMA0KDQpodHRwczovL2luZnJhc3Ry dWN0dXJlLnB1bmt0LmRlDQppbmZvQHB1bmt0LmRlDQoNCkFHIE1hbm5oZWltIDEwODI4NQ0KR2Vz Y2jDpGZ0c2bDvGhyZXI6IERhbmllbCBMaWVuZXJ0LCBGYWJpYW4gU3RlaW4NCg0K From nobody Fri Aug 1 09:26:32 2025 X-Original-To: stable@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4btgZJ0j2Zz63hBF for ; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 09:26:48 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gabor@zahemszky.hu) Received: from smtp-14-out.integrity.hu (smtp-14-out.integrity.hu [212.52.165.224]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "*.integrity.hu", Issuer "RapidSSL TLS RSA CA G1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4btgZG1t04z41Zn; Fri, 01 Aug 2025 09:26:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gabor@zahemszky.hu) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of gabor@zahemszky.hu designates 212.52.165.224 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=gabor@zahemszky.hu; dmarc=none Received: from webmail.integrity.hu (mail-fe-2.integrity.hu [10.1.64.122]) (Authenticated sender: gabor@zahemszky.hu) by mail-smtp.integrity.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPA id E12BC1A0E1B; Fri, 1 Aug 2025 11:26:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from ILkZHTNAKpQS+5nMl7hizaUyVgPKvwgIA/D+lta9cx3SZm+G1ZiE5w== (PWquk9TyWbdJ0qWLubKtcpGhlmVXaL1x) by webmail.integrity.hu with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Fri, 01 Aug 2025 11:26:32 +0200 List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-stable List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Sender: owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2025 11:26:32 +0200 From: =?UTF-8?Q?Zahemszky_G=C3=A1bor?= To: Tomoaki AOKI Cc: ports@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org, Baptiste Daroussin , Andriy Gapon , Alan Somers , kbowling@freebsd.org, ashafer@freebsd.org Subject: Re: CFT: repository for kernel modules In-Reply-To: <20250725221401.ebbbecad87038e839767cb55@dec.sakura.ne.jp> References: <90754854-2a84-4bd8-bc31-dd49296b74c6@FreeBSD.org> <20241228115223.a8bf731f332bbcd2094ae93e@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <20250725221401.ebbbecad87038e839767cb55@dec.sakura.ne.jp> Message-ID: X-Sender: gabor@zahemszky.hu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Virus-Scanned: clamav-milter 1.0.7 at mail-smtp-3 X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.72 / 15.00]; SUSPICIOUS_URL_IN_SUSPICIOUS_MESSAGE(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.996]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.99)[-0.994]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.89)[-0.889]; R_MIXED_CHARSET(0.56)[subject]; URIBL_RED(0.50)[dec.sakura.ne.jp:email]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; HAS_ANON_DOMAIN(0.10)[]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[gabor]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[zahemszky.hu]; ASN(0.00)[asn:28924, ipnet:212.52.165.0/24, country:HU]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:212.52.165.224/30]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[stable@freebsd.org]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[8]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4btgZG1t04z41Zn X-Spamd-Bar: / A last question: I have an old Nvidia card (Quatro-K4200), which is supported by the nvidia-driver-470 (and not the official nvidia-driver (-570?)). Every time the drm-61-kmod binary package changes, it deinstalls the correct driver and reinstalls the official. Is it possible to handle it? (Every time I have to type: pkg remove -f nvidia-driver && pkg install nvidia-driver-470 Are there a more intelligent way? Thanks, ZAHEMSZKY, Gábor 2025-07-25 15:14 időpontban Tomoaki AOKI ezt írta: > On Sat, 28 Dec 2024 11:52:23 +0900 > Tomoaki AOKI wrote: > >> On Thu, 26 Dec 2024 14:23:52 +0100 >> Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> >> > On Thu 26 Dec 13:26, Andriy Gapon wrote: >> > > On 13/12/2024 16:28, Baptiste Daroussin wrote: >> > > > On Fri 13 Dec 07:24, Alan Somers wrote: >> > > > > Success! With drm-61-kmod-6.1.92.1402000_3 I can kldload 915kms on >> > > > > FreeBSD 14.2. Before switching to this repo, kldload would hang. >> > > > > >> > > > > Also, in addition to kmods, there are a few other ports that must be >> > > > > rebuilt for every minor version. devel/py-libzfs is one. Could that >> > > > > be added to the new repository? >> > > > >> > > > Right now and until we have a thin repository support in poudriere: no :(. >> > > > >> > > > One of the limitation is everything is cross build from amd64 so I cannot get >> > > > much things in that repo considering that in 2024 perl is still not cross build >> > > > friendly and last I checked python wasn't either. >> > > >> > > I guess that's also the reason why nvidia driver packages are not built for >> > > the kmod repo? >> > > Because they bundle kernel and userland code in the same port? >> > >> > Yes ! >> > It seems they can be easily split, but I don't have the time to split them now. >> > And I don't have any nvidia device to test >> > >> > Bapt > > Hi. > > Bug 288314 is filed that stating, for 14.3, there are no pkg of > graphics/nvidia-drm-kmod in FreeBSD-kmods repo. > > https://bugs.freebsd.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=288314 > > Is it a temporary delay? > > Or does it (as it is metaport to choose actual nvidia-drm-*-kmod, it > would be one of graphics/nvidia-drm-*-kmod, though) because of kmod > parts of x11/nvidia-driver* are NOT splitted from them and > graphics/nvidia-drm-*-kmod ports are depending on > x11/nvidia-driver[-devel]? > > If so, I'll try to > *split kmod parts from x11/nvidia-driver[-304|-340|-390|-470|-devel] > and create corresponding > x11/nvidia-kmod[-304|-340|-390|-470|-devel], > > *let x11/nvidia-driver[-304|-340|-390|-470|-devel] to depend on > corresponding kmod port, > > and > > *switch dependency of graphics/nvidia-drm-*-kmod[-devel] from > x11/nvidia-driver[-devel] to corresponding x11/nvidia-kmod[-devel]. > > Note that, other than graphics/nvidia-drm-*-kmod[-devel], > science/linux-ai-ml-env alone depends on x11/nvidia-driver, > but it isn't kmod port and would want library parts, thus, > no plan to modify it (if something is needed to do, it would be > to allow choosing proper version that support wanted GPU). > > TBH, I've already started investigating if it is actually possible > or not, but not finished. > > Any insights and/or thoughts? > > > Another thing to mention. > All legacy versions of nvidia driver supporting i386 (called x86 > upstream) are already deprecated upstream. > > https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3142 > > and dissappeared from top page for Unix drivers. > > https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/drivers/unix/ > > Actually, any older versions for amd64 (x86_64) can be > tracked from Archive link. > > https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/FreeBSD-x86_64/ > > Fortunately, there is still > > https://download.nvidia.com/XFree86/FreeBSD-x86/ > > for i386 (just cannot tracked via links) and fetchable. > But once nvidia decided to delete them, we have no way > to fetch i386 versions and we cannot know when it is. > > I'm planning to send heads-up for the deprecation, > but still a bit wondering whether we should explicitly > DEPRECATE legacy versions other than still supported -470 > or send heads-up alone and remove affected ports once > it becomes unfetchable. > > Anyway, I wouldn't set EXPIRATION_DATE even if DEPRECATE'ing > affected ports, as when to be unfetchable is unknown. > > Regards. > > >> x11/nvidia-driver port is quite complicated with conditionals and >> reinplaces to support legacy (and unofficially new feature and beta) >> drivers. (x11/nvidia-driver is the master port of x11/nvidia-driver-* >> having all required supports/workarounds per-version differences). >> >> And it strongly depends on bundled pre-compiled (proprietary) large >> blobs, so possibly even splitting it into kmod parts and libraries >> part >> would not help cross compiling. >> >> And more, graphics/nvidia-drm-[510|515|61]-kmod depends on it and >> corresponding graphics/drm-[510|515|61]-kmod ports, could make it more >> complicated. >> >> But one possibly good news would be that native i386 is terminated on >> newer than 390 branch of drivers, and chasing Xorg ABI changes like at >> 1.20 for legacy drivers are not 100% promised. >> >> >> https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/x-wont-start-on-xorg-server-1-20-and-nvidia-legacy-390-new-abi/61219 >> >> >> https://forums.developer.nvidia.com/t/unix-graphics-feature-deprecation-schedule/60588 >> >> So once the Xorg ABI changes again, nvidia decides to chase it only >> on production, new feature and beta branches at the moment and xorg >> related ports on FreeBSD switches to newer version, we can (forcibly) >> drop supports for legacy drivers supporting i386. >> >> *Running 32bit i386 apps on compat supports of amd64 OS is still >> supported at least currently. >> >> And, Ugh, should we consider using --kernel-module-type=proprietary >> option for x11/linux-nvidia-libs depending on its version (560 and >> later only)? >> My current assumption is that what affected by this are kernel modules >> only and other components x11/linux-nvidia-libs installs are not >> affected. But I'm not a nvidia insider and cannot be sure. >> >> Anyway, currently we give "--extract-only" flag to *.run in >> x11/linux-nvidia-libs/Makefile, so anything required to be run for >> detecting GPU to choose module flavor (proprietary or open) shouldn't >> work here. >> >> -- >> Tomoaki AOKI