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Date:      Mon, 27 Sep 1999 13:38:05 -0700 (PDT)
From:      "Rodney W. Grimes" <freebsd@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
To:        nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams)
Cc:        cjclark@home.com, Cy.Schubert@uumail.gov.bc.ca (Cy Schubert - ITSD Open Systems Group), dillon@apollo.backplane.com (Matthew Dillon), freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG
Subject:   Re: dump(8) Insecurity/Misconfiguration
Message-ID:  <199909272038.NAA13161@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net>
In-Reply-To: <199909271932.NAA11712@mt.sri.com> from Nate Williams at "Sep 27, 1999 01:32:32 pm"

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> > > [ Rod, you *really* need to get out more ]
> > 
> > What, I spent 5 hours yesterday cleaning the side yard at the shop, is
> > that ``out'' enough for you :-) :-) :-)
> 
> No, cause it's work related.  Go jump out of a plane or something. :)

I wish I could, medical reasons have had me grounded for over 2 years
now :-( :-(.

> [
> Rod asserts that using SSH for backups is a revenue-generating task, and
> as such violates the 'free' use of the SSH license.
> ]
> 
> > I'll bet you dollars to a dog turd that the SSH licensor considers this
> > a licensable situation.
> 
> I've got the dog turd, so the bet is on.

Okay.  Who do I call or email??

> >>> You may also find that the license fee is quite low for what you
> >>> want to do.
> >>
> >> NOT!
> 
> > Then it is even more likely to be outside of the scope of the shareware
> > license.
> 
> It's not a shareware license, or even close to one.  It basically says
> that if you make money from using this product (not, if you make money
> *AND* use this product), then you must pay for it.
> 
> The amount of money you pay is not dependant on how much money you make,
> it's a fixed fee based on the the number of 'machines' it's installed
> on.
> 
> (Last I bought the commercial product, it was $2K/CPU, but that was a
> couple of years ago.)

Not unreasonable, but probably a set back to those who are use to the
freeness of open source.

> 
> We pay this, but it's because we needed some additional features that
> the commercial version had.  I could have hacked the code myself, but
> that assumed I could do it less than 40 hours, and I doubt I could have
> it done/tested/documented in that amount of time, hence we just bought
> it for the one box that needed the feature.
> 
> The other boxes all run the 'free' version.
> 
> However, $2K/seat is alot of money for an ISP to charge for something as
> trivial as backups, especially when minimum cost is $4K (one for the
> tape server, and one for the remote client).

Hummmm.... twice what a reasonable capacity tape drive is a bit much!!
But it is much less than some of the backup solutions we have done for
clients, with DLT robots and such.

> It's simply not worth it, IMO.

It could be worth it, if Licenese violations where at concerned the
normal allowable damages would far exceed the $4K.

The real simple solution for this person is to simply go use amanda,
that is how we eliminated this whole issue!

-- 
Rod Grimes - KD7CAX - (RWG25)                    rgrimes@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net


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