From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Apr 25 13:28:38 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4C5B2B19F9 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:28:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from kicp.uchicago.edu (kicp.uchicago.edu [128.135.20.70]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 498X1K3vTdz44s8 for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:28:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu) Received: from [192.168.43.113] (unknown [172.58.142.133]) (Authenticated sender: galtsev) by kicp.uchicago.edu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 8A9304E68A for ; Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:28:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Re: Mailman's moderation checkbox?! - Why are so many FreeBSD haters on this list? (Troll bait) To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org References: <6222c6ca-4709-d800-2d3a-59913bd2cf2a@gmail.com> <20200425055723.00e6f974@archlinux> <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> From: Valeri Galtsev Message-ID: <762afc18-324a-05ab-cf1b-68de2afea9ae@kicp.uchicago.edu> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 08:28:30 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <20200425100348.3022f215@archlinux> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 498X1K3vTdz44s8 X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=fail reason="No valid SPF, No valid DKIM" header.from=uchicago.edu (policy=none); spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu has no SPF policy when checking 128.135.20.70) smtp.mailfrom=galtsev@kicp.uchicago.edu X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.71 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[uchicago.edu : No valid SPF, No valid DKIM,none]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[133.142.58.172.khpj7ygk5idzvmvt5x4ziurxhy.zen.dq.spamhaus.net : 127.0.0.10]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.979,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; IP_SCORE(0.10)[ip: (0.28), ipnet: 128.135.0.0/16(0.14), asn: 160(0.11), country: US(-0.05)]; SUBJECT_HAS_EXCLAIM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[70.20.135.128.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.10.0]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.93)[-0.928,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_NO_TLS_LAST(0.10)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:160, ipnet:128.135.0.0/16, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_HAS_QUESTION(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2020 13:28:38 -0000 On 4/25/20 3:03 AM, Ralf Mardorf via freebsd-questions wrote: > S t o p spreading misinformation, stop spreading FUD! > > It's hard to ignore such replies. On almost all other mailing lists the > moderation bit already would have been set. I join you and ask list moderators to ban that person from the list. Valeri > > Note, you aren't doing FreeBSD a favour by spreading untruth about > other operating systems. Subscribers of this list don't hate FreeBSD, > so even promo based on facts, without bashing other operating systems > is unneeded. > > I never claimed that it is evil to make money by programming and > selling software. I also never claimed that you need to buy a hardware > + operating system + user app bundle put together by a dealer. "bundle" > is for the right hardware, for the right operating system, for the > right user application, which results in the right tool. The right tool > for a landscape artist is a tablet PC with a pencil. The landscape > artist needs a tablet PC, an operating system that does run on a tablet > PC with pencil and a drawing app that does run on the operating system. > You need a bundle, even if you are the one who put it together. > > Thanks to GNU you will hardly find many legal Linux distribution that > are binary only ;), let alone that the FUD you spread about "largely > non-standardized methods of build from source with no real way of > making sure you have all the required packages to compile against" is > ridiculous. You are just unqualified. If you dislike split Linux > packages, just chose a distro that doesn't split software from upstream > into packages for the binaries, libraries, headers, e.g. Arch Linux. If > you don't like Linux at all, don't care about it at all. However, even > distros that split software from upstream into several packages tend to > provide a fine user manual, e.g. Debian and Ubuntu. > > As an example, gimp: > > Arch Linux: https://www.archlinux.org/packages/extra/x86_64/gimp/ > It's a single package. > > Debian (and Ubuntu) tracker: > https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/gimp > It's a split package. > > gimp > gimp-data > libgimp2.0 > libgimp2.0-dev > libgimp2.0-doc > > You even don't need to read a fine manual to take a look at the control > and rules files: > > https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gimp/control-2.10.18-1 > https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/g/gimp/rules-2.10.18-1 > > To understand some things of those files you might need to read the fine > manual. > > Arch PKGBUILDs are scripts, so you can already understand them without > using a fine manual. > > While Arch Linux provides a *BSD port alike build system, even distros > that do not, such as Debian and Ubuntu, don't split the source packages. > IOW if you download a source package, to build a new edited package, by > following the fine manual, you don't need to worry about the split > package policy. > > A "computers for self purpose" is for a computer that isn't used as a > useful tool in a special non-computer domain, it's for a computer that > is just used as computer in a native computer domain. I do not mean > for "selfish purposes". > > There's a difference between coders who have got knowledge about > computers and a special native non-computer domain, such as music, > drawing art, elementary particle physics, bookkeeping etc. and coders > who only have knowledge about computers. > > I never met somebody who needs software or who is writing software in a > domain that is not a computer domain in the first place and who cares > about all that generalized pros and cons of different operating systems > and licenses. What _we_ (I'm one of them) usually chose is the > platform/bundle that fits best to the user's and/or developer's needs, > so we sometimes end up with different hardware and different operating > systems and different licensed software for different purposes. > > The trousers I wear are made by a different vendor than the guitars I > play. The operating system I'm using for one purpose could be another > operating system, than what I'm using for another purpose. I'm not the > only one who does chose a tool that fits to the purpose instead of > taking care about generalisation. Even within a very special domain > generalisation tends to be inaccurate. > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Valeri Galtsev Sr System Administrator Department of Astronomy and Astrophysics Kavli Institute for Cosmological Physics University of Chicago Phone: 773-702-4247 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++