From owner-svn-src-all@freebsd.org Tue Jun 16 00:18:14 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9F09347F56 for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:18:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x82d.google.com (mail-qt1-x82d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49m81L0X40z412T for ; Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:18:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x82d.google.com with SMTP id e16so14205930qtg.0 for ; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 17:18:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=clflAy0o4lqnIRnQgLyP8omm7AkpTBEXiORFcT2bgsw=; b=XEXRnB+FxoEEQO66qK7RQGebMVuSoViIT8Yh+JvWAeRjqk08z7OIzn/eimT0DmXgfZ gcjfHSbKMUYtPB7C1xsRKHjHXLNgVfD7rFXavsQ40b0R7Nbzzpru1IbgsT7cZgVcgLJk bKNbf44hNUcfe1948n76yE2916W48xRk3vnf6aMSpqGApRZLqeQ3T9OIyAfMwLk5vzxt uXAaKVbNO230eWK37RlcWAuJgg5lefPS+G3NEPTfKOmh4qMt6j+kpp64O7dsFh8Ls7Jz 5wVt/IgTz307EKTPq5EYuF3pJO5V26izJuxb4SWzo3r/u2TOyDjvkuC97vu3sPv92LBk 9/QA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=clflAy0o4lqnIRnQgLyP8omm7AkpTBEXiORFcT2bgsw=; b=AbeReRSEFkyYK41e4fFVItRDpNRxdQ2p2IVx/XGVXisE+ExoXyYSqGjMOWgqlYaOB7 aI5EHVpyZ2t5/KVyUMRYhMHuCrUKar1p41CssXVSf11ZRALS4dI4oTNC109dLjRudTwE /pHuObRMJGZf6HWb3MgLl2hMQKCcdfsNE5Ry1i8rPWI5ac1vGesfLCzMY/Lg7l9OonJM pUnE8C7R6aRcbkj4wO/rL0PQ5rfmw7HFQHx4vMo0NPmxA4b6qPulDY2Iv9/rV3xXGPvU /+8Zoej6JuxSkeP+zE6q97JzHb4KDNFu7Z+4nMAcLIifsvqo9MbTPvAK7K4Ztp0VSOuB tBuQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533lRynCLY/dpZ+1rx9+yXNgaSV8rNqZzb07G55+MQC7N6WLCY7w tswVpiYkF2ZKaHqUSYZtH3Y0Yej6/ZqPTqW34nVkAA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxC0jXDTjigF3xpf612zIkH8dU0oxQKuW6uEi/Iz+jQjxrX+CAEG5ivbGEr+XiNEBafp22QvoCJoSTyh2H4V9c= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4b71:: with SMTP id g17mr18761887qts.187.1592266692450; Mon, 15 Jun 2020 17:18:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202006152112.05FLCFqc078086@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> In-Reply-To: <202006152112.05FLCFqc078086@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2020 18:18:00 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r362191 - head/sbin/md5 To: "Rodney W. Grimes" Cc: Mateusz Piotrowski <0mp@freebsd.org>, =?UTF-8?Q?Fernando_Apestegu=C3=ADa?= , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49m81L0X40z412T X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=XEXRnB+F; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.66 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.77)[-0.774]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.45)[-0.446]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[svn-src-all@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.44)[-0.442]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::82d:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2020 00:18:14 -0000 On Mon, Jun 15, 2020, 3:12 PM Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 15, 2020 at 7:34 AM Mateusz Piotrowski <0mp@freebsd.org> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > On 6/15/20 2:33 PM, Rodney W. Grimes wrote: > > > > [ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ] > > > >> Author: fernape (ports committer) > > > >> Date: Mon Jun 15 10:08:02 2020 > > > >> New Revision: 362191 > > > >> URL: https://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/362191 > > > >> > > > >> Log: > > > >> md5(1): fix style in man page > > > > > > > > Mandoc is fine to ignore this, but it is wrong to call it useless. > > > > > > > > I really wish that this stop. .Tn might be useless to mandoc, > > > > but it is a very usable thing if your formatting to something > > > > other than txt, as in a ps or pdf. > > > > > > In that case I would consider patching our in-tree mandoc to not warn > > > about Tn. Or request support for Tn or a well-defined replacement > upstream. > > > > > > I can see the benefit of keeping Tn around, as it /might/ potentially > > > create nice formatting for HTML. On the other hand, I don't like the > > > idea of not following the linter. > > > > > > > I thought that Tn thing was the general consensus thing and added to the > > linter because of that. The man page explains why it's problematic: > > > > Tn word ... > > Supported only for compatibility, do not use this in new > manuals. > > Even though the macro name ("tradename") suggests a semantic > > function, historic usage is inconsistent, mostly using it as a > > presentation-level macro to request a small caps font. > > I believe that comes about because of confusion over trade name vs > trademark. They are not defined as the same thing. > > > It was useful for the Unix trademark, but was tailor towards AT&T's > > preferred dressing for the Unix trademark, not for trademarks in general. > > Crossing tradename with trademark? > > > In this case, there were several instances of abuse: > > > > -.Tn RSA . > > +key under a public-key cryptosystem such as RSA. > > trade name: noun > 1. the name used by a manufacturer, merchant, service company, > farming business, etc., to identify itself individually > as a business. > 2. a word or phrase used in a trade to designate a business, > service, or a particular class of goods, but that is not > technically a trademark, either because it is not > susceptible of exclusive appropriation as a trademark or > because it is not affixed to goods sold in the market. > 3. the name by which an article or substance is known to the trade. > > I would say RSA defanitly meets 3, and probably 2. > > > > > Not a trademark in this context. RSA is a trademark for the RSA > corporation > > and it uses it in various other contexts. > > > > -The > > -.Tn MD5 > > -and > > -.Tn SHA-1 > > -algorithms have been proven to be vulnerable to practical collision > > -attacks and should not be relied upon to produce unique outputs, > > +The MD5 and SHA-1 algorithms have been proven to be vulnerable to > practical > > +collision attacks and should not be relied upon to produce unique > outputs, > > > > MD5 and SHA-1 are not trade names in this context. The rest seem similar, > > though I've not gone to the trouble to look them all up. > > I would disagree under the definition of trade name above, > you seem to be applying the definition of trade mark. > None of these are trade names. They are all simple names used to describe different algorithms. They are no more trade names than bubble sort or radix tree. > > > All in all, while I have some sympathy to Rod's view that we're losing > > semantic information by these changes in general, this particular one > > actually fixes the abuse talked about in the mdoc manual, IMHO. > > Only if the macro is rigidly defined as "trademark" and it > is not. > The macro is obsoleted in upstream. Splitting hairs on this isn't going to change that. Time has passed this one by. Warner > Warner > -- > Rod Grimes > rgrimes@freebsd.org >