From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Sat Aug 16 16:44:14 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 965BC529 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:44:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from fly.hiwaay.net (fly.hiwaay.net [216.180.54.1]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C17A2E6F for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:44:14 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [192.168.0.27] (rbn1-216-180-76-149.adsl.hiwaay.net [216.180.76.149]) (authenticated bits=0) by fly.hiwaay.net (8.13.8/8.13.8/fly) with ESMTP id s7GGiDrc021172 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:44:13 -0500 Message-ID: <53EF8BD4.3060609@hiwaay.net> Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 11:50:28 -0500 From: "William A. Mahaffey III" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; FreeBSD amd64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Putting my new FreeBSD 9.3 desktop online .... References: <53EBE6D6.8090501@hiwaay.net> <20140814072430.5e39c3bc.freebsd@edvax.de> <53ED2189.6020408@hiwaay.net> <53EE14FA.8060601@hiwaay.net> <20140815192413.78634baa.freebsd@edvax.de> <53EE4480.1080803@hiwaay.net> <20140815194438.2a468e5f.freebsd@edvax.de> <53EF4592.9030406@hiwaay.net> <87iolsift1.fsf@elk.localnet> <20140816183110.5878829a.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20140816183110.5878829a.freebsd@edvax.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2014 16:44:14 -0000 On 08/16/14 11:31, Polytropon wrote: > On Sat, 16 Aug 2014 09:02:02 -0700, Carl Johnson wrote: >> "William A. Mahaffey III" writes: >> >>> .... someone later suggested some alterations to some of the xdm >>> config files .... at this point, I've pretty much given up on it, I >>> just do a console login, then type startx & all is well. I normally >>> stay logged in for long periods (weeks/months), so this doesn't come >>> up often .... >> I had also given up on running xdm with xfce on 10.0. I copied a >> running configuration from 9.1 but it refused to work with 10.0. I >> tried just a bare xterm and jwm and both work with xdm, so it appears to >> be xfce. Similar to others, I just have my .bash_profile run startx >> automatically, but in my case only when `tty` = /dev/ttyv3. > I don't know ehy, but this sounds totally wrong. :-/ > > I've been using xdm for a long time because it's simple to > set up, fast, and secure. I have also used Xfce because it > was easy to set up, sufficiently fast, and had useful features. > This combination doesn't seem to work anymore. For one point, > I switched to gdm + Gnome 2 (but gdm doesn't start anything > that's _not_ Gnome, so a "Gnome only party" there), for the > other, kept using xdm, but with WindowMaker for my home > desktop. > > An alternative to xdm with a similar look and feel is wdm, > the WindowMaker display manager, which almost looks like the > Solaris/CDE login manager. Maybe it's worth trying this one? > It even supports easily switching desktops or window managers > for an account (e. g., login user "foo" and start Xfce session, > or start Fluxbox session instead). > > Regarding xdm configuration: > > Fiddling with files in /usr/local/lib/X11/xdm sounds terrible. > I have to admit that I'm using custom settings for xdm, but > the correct places for such changes probably are /etc/X11/xdm > or at least /usr/local/etc/xdm (because those are places where > configuration files are located that are subject to the usual > versioning and backup processes). I have decided to keep the > stuff in /etc/X11/xdm (because xorg.conf also is in /etc/X11) > and create symlinks from the original location to where I > put _my_ configuration files (which are backed up and under > version control). > > But I don't use Xfce anymore, nor do I recommend it. Yes, I > know, this is sad, because I actually liked Xfce (and even > XFCE, version 3, the nice CDE-lookalike that still runs on > on one of my backup machines). > > Why did I abandon Xfce? Because it's not "portable enough" > anymore. It's a "mostly Linux" desktop environment where the > attempt of running it on FreeBSD leads to despair - it's not > trivial to set up anymore, and functionality is lacking. If > you want something lightweight, maybe consider LXDE, or get > rid of a desktop at all (and use a window manager instead). > If you want "all the features", go with Gnome. Or if you're > a KDE person (I'm not), use KDE. It's not that it works > out of the box in every aspect (as it used to be in the > good old days), primarily because this is ported software > coming from Linux, which is a different operating system, > but chances are good that you get the most things working. > If you're _really_ good, you even can get automounting to > run halfway as intended. It's not that _I_ would want to > use the abomination I've created to make this possible, but > my users (who wanted a Gnome desktop in a single-user manner) > seem to be happy with it. I can't even tell you how I did > it, but definitely not like the Handbook and FAQ told me to, > because it didn't work. Somehow, I god an automounter port > involved as well as replacing the umount program with a > stupid script, but... > > Things got slower, more bloated, crashed more often and > were unmaintainable in essential or simple parts (like > changing the mouse cursor to a normal black color, or > changing keyboard bindings). I admit that this is normal, > and the logical reason of the software evolution process > (at least I have been told that this is the truth). But > I don't like it. When I have newer hardware and newer > software, I want things to be faster and easier, not > slower and more complicated. I even want that on the _same_ > hardware - and for _many_ FreeBSD applications and especially > for the FreeBSD operating system, THIS IS TRUE! > > The more complex modern software becomes, the more complicated > it seems to get easy things working. Or maybe I'm just too > stupid. But personally, I learned to prefer simple things > for simple tasks, and get rid of the "one size fits all" > desktop metaphor. Not because it's bad per se, but because > it just doesn't work. > > Summary: Replace xdm with wdm. Replace Xfce with LXDE. Or > replace the whole stuff with gdm + Gnome 2. Or with KDE, > if you feel you like KDE. > > So much for today's session of "blame-the-program seizure", > thanks for your time and attention. I will now receive the > proper medication and become silent, calm, and ignorant, > just as the society prefers me to be. :-) > > *Hear, hear, hear !!!!* -- William A. Mahaffey III ---------------------------------------------------------------------- "The M1 Garand is without doubt the finest implement of war ever devised by man." -- Gen. George S. Patton Jr.