From nobody Thu Dec 16 16:49:37 2021 X-Original-To: freebsd-current@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A89C18E7AA8 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 16:49:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: from cell.glebi.us (glebi.us [162.251.186.162]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "cell.glebi.us", Issuer "cell.glebi.us" (not verified)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4JFJ4T5nZJz3nxB; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 16:49:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: from cell.glebi.us (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cell.glebi.us (8.16.1/8.16.1) with ESMTPS id 1BGGnbYw009910 (version=TLSv1.3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 16 Dec 2021 08:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) Received: (from glebius@localhost) by cell.glebi.us (8.16.1/8.16.1/Submit) id 1BGGnbpQ009909; Thu, 16 Dec 2021 08:49:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from glebius@freebsd.org) X-Authentication-Warning: cell.glebi.us: glebius set sender to glebius@freebsd.org using -f Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2021 08:49:37 -0800 From: Gleb Smirnoff To: Warner Losh Cc: Emmanuel Vadot , Ed Maste , FreeBSD Current Subject: Re: Any Cronyx Tau* (ce(4) or cp(4)) users ? Message-ID: References: <20211215162538.99d8d81650af56e2276f2f88@bidouilliste.com> <20211215175202.e1d101079a9c22c9094577f3@bidouilliste.com> <20211216101733.7b7bfa569aca496b22ef0324@bidouilliste.com> <20211216161337.1fa53758e61eaeb37b8b24d0@bidouilliste.com> List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-current List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-current@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4JFJ4T5nZJz3nxB X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[] X-Spam: Yes X-ThisMailContainsUnwantedMimeParts: N On Thu, Dec 16, 2021 at 09:30:41AM -0700, Warner Losh wrote: W> > E> And we're doing that just because the drivers compiles ? W> > G> We are doing that because the hardware is still produced ... W> > E> ... a lot of obsolete hardware that we've removed are still produced ... W> > G> I'd be interested to see at least one example ... W> > E> This was an hypothetical situation. W> > W> > I don't know what to reply here. :( W> W> The standards that Brooks, Ed and I have been using in retiring drivers has W> been W> "Still relevant to FreeBSD". Although whether or not something was still in W> production W> is an input into that, it's not the only factor in decisions made. W> W> While that standard is a bit vague, I'm struggling understanding the case W> for these W> drivers still being relevant to FreeBSD in the absence of documented actual W> use, W> let alone a use case that we can do a cost-benefit analysis on. Yes, so what I'm trying to say here is that right now cost of having the drivers in the tree is virtually zero. Emmanuel says that benefit is zero. I can't refute Emmanuel's statement, I can only speculate that benefit could be non-zero, as apparently devices are still produced and E1 lines still exist. So I'm fine with removal if anybody demonstrates me a non-zero cost of leaving the drivers in. -- Gleb Smirnoff