From nobody Wed Jan 31 21:31:46 2024 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4TQFc35YfRz58Klm for ; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from puchar.net (puchar.net [194.1.144.90]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4TQFc33S1fz4sJn; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 21:32:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; none Received: Received: from 127.0.0.1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by puchar.net (8.15.2/8.17.1) with ESMTPS id 40VLVmd2083503 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 31 Jan 2024 22:31:49 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=puchar.net; s=default; t=1706736709; bh=CYYkVlSJKctI07liHTGBzGjD8tVi/DK0Byi3SIJJiP0=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=iwbdGblPEDOqomHXrnAS51pwee1MU60JaQVUT9aGdgakpfH0RyiTu5RpHio9IlpyG kMSvkpoCPkpPXmGdMLLKsxrq9vrTlEA0ocmmf7p7uEHwfiBCfiVrgi4sksDRcj/30e +xhffNayYg03TqhaDxzMPYgu06c8CHa80uuvLp6o= Received: from wojtek.intra (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by wojtek.intra (8.17.1/8.16.1) with ESMTP id 40VLVmtL030095; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 22:31:48 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) Received: from localhost (wojtek@localhost) by wojtek.intra (8.17.1/8.16.1/Submit) with ESMTP id 40VLVkcr030092; Wed, 31 Jan 2024 22:31:46 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from wojtek@puchar.net) X-Authentication-Warning: wojtek.intra: wojtek owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2024 22:31:46 +0100 (CET) From: Wojciech Puchar To: David Chisnall cc: Tomoaki AOKI , Antranig Vartanian , Alan Somers , FreeBSD Hackers , Warner Losh , Scott Long , =?ISO-8859-2?Q?Goran_Meki=E6?= Subject: Re: The Case for Rust (in the base system) In-Reply-To: <782FA00C-3B90-49C8-85F7-AF784F42A3CC@FreeBSD.org> Message-ID: <6af9739e-2be3-d0a8-bcb0-fd63196246e5@puchar.net> References: <3DCF4236-4DFA-448E-A378-DE04EC147B50@FreeBSD.org> <20240201000734.83a86f486691276e533530e4@dec.sakura.ne.jp> <782FA00C-3B90-49C8-85F7-AF784F42A3CC@FreeBSD.org> List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4TQFc33S1fz4sJn X-Spamd-Bar: ---- X-Rspamd-Pre-Result: action=no action; module=replies; Message is reply to one we originated X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.00 / 15.00]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:43476, ipnet:194.1.144.0/24, country:PL] On Wed, 31 Jan 2024, David Chisnall wrote: > On 31 Jan 2024, at 15:07, Tomoaki AOKI wrote: >> >> First of all, NO MEMORY-SAFE language can write codes using volatile >> memory objects, most notably, memory-mapped I/O and/or DMA driver. > > The first half of that is obvious nonsense. Memory-mapped I/O is not intrinsically unsafe, from a memory-safety perspective. Even Java has volatile objects and Sun Labs used Java for device drivers twenty years ago. Having a memory-safe interface for MMIO is helpful. This line above is complete nonsense. as most of that discussion. Two things are certain: - democracy is last phase of civilisation fall. Happening today. Democracy, in case of FreeBSD will do the same for FreeBSD. Already happened year ago for linux and others. As there are more stupid people than clever. If it wins - Rust and other nonsenses will become quickly standard. What is certain - that there will be exactly opposite about security holes that their claims. There will be far more that it is today. - clever people don't need latest computers, so current FreeBSD can still be used. With possibly some development to meet current needs. So not really a problem. Mark Twain once said "no amount of arguments are sufficient for idiot". So this is my last post. Keep fighting.