From nobody Sat Jan 18 01:13:10 2025 X-Original-To: freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4YZds23StTz5kXrf for <freebsd-hackers@mlmmj.nyi.freebsd.org>; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 01:13:26 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Received: from mail-ed1-f52.google.com (mail-ed1-f52.google.com [209.85.208.52]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "WR4" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4YZds13wKCz3WB8 for <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Sat, 18 Jan 2025 01:13:25 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from asomers@gmail.com) Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of asomers@gmail.com designates 209.85.208.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=asomers@gmail.com; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM" header.from=freebsd.org (policy=none) Received: by mail-ed1-f52.google.com with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5d414b8af7bso5139934a12.0 for <freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org>; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 17:13:25 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1737162803; x=1737767603; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=JqYWzz4cq5RteGAoi/9VbWRsaY6USV7nAo80er4cr1o=; b=oKL/+2hohSFvZURg+f8n5zX0jy7hcFJsTPBw6EhuuoyNJ7vUs2+YLJUYROpIw9vJdZ hGyidPzfZAbRoLxS5ljD5DhZjgvqaAx7I7Fzp9ZVoaCew3hwMeotP+itMfzpa2ntxFfb 6R8p579d5XKZ8sqyUvuQEwOR7r/sxdgFyzjorI7hZb6hU066pbrlSSq9zu/1JOqqSmZi NELS97J9mUCFPWLdMoAYwLn1ADrsaf1Yuk0hGajjF/l19y41IXjCVScHDQeF+FHFvidP TtfwNOUSR0QxA2HjgC7/5joEs8GfqDbx9z6tmvEQjOV7W+kZ8F3qE4xyv8lqjUS1Z/YT YQ1g== X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCXEMdr8C3Eco9MiueAi9rhN5fJW9aY1WcR9qSXkEzpp+ZTNDYT62RRDV3HAawlUhB2o3OHWeRGTiaHZb5UiMMM=@freebsd.org X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzH7nS21Skh9Cg0q3IX1MYLvfRD6fCae4CyDvIasYODIr693MDu Hcb3P1UDJ7piDmGI58ewSZzqapUOsz3cTgpA6cX+HMTBzHDIQfdyGgXCq671Wfw3+T8WtgWv6YC 0z0utLtoiM9jb75iOnwUKjtbRn4o= X-Gm-Gg: ASbGncvLyCVD5oSwX9YN9CjfVH7guQcF9kmCb4/oSiuVShe3T4G7UhoFE+WUS7yAwgu F/s/Hz1mRXFk0i6MmtJgAFY1suYIeHK5HLPhF8N+FRyOVuj+VtuU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGGQGaF12OJh/xq8BZzVGe03Eo7QqJo9amfwXFYey8BjoXucaI5m/th84gy4mbJaUBU2lgu1qpoP0Hcl0UtpUM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6402:3509:b0:5d0:cfdd:2ac1 with SMTP id 4fb4d7f45d1cf-5db7d2d9958mr4824875a12.6.1737162802736; Fri, 17 Jan 2025 17:13:22 -0800 (PST) List-Id: Technical discussions relating to FreeBSD <freebsd-hackers.freebsd.org> List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-hackers List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-hackers+help@freebsd.org> List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org> List-Subscribe: <mailto:freebsd-hackers+subscribe@freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:freebsd-hackers+unsubscribe@freebsd.org> Sender: owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.org MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <CAAvCNcD1CziGxmgyzyWix5ADsDXRpkbFUM32H9nEji9kR+Vc-Q@mail.gmail.com> <CAOtMX2i29F8NU493v81ggsdcprr7iifuD1aivaxsULxZrYt1tA@mail.gmail.com> <CALXu0UcP5WR_gV000akarzDxGap70jJwNaf7_BgKgVVU0S2bzg@mail.gmail.com> <CAOtMX2jVjMsDdE_E=kZg2OHUbhq=XzRuu1YEowyQXkyg+x7qXg@mail.gmail.com> <CAM5tNy4DmgPoKWRONv86v+OxEjX0bK4--tcXnWmtOQN96aaaQA@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <CAM5tNy4DmgPoKWRONv86v+OxEjX0bK4--tcXnWmtOQN96aaaQA@mail.gmail.com> From: Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2025 18:13:10 -0700 X-Gm-Features: AbW1kvY4lSeL3rQOPuGaOeokBC86r499CDnbAhHxO2UPVORRrK3KzXBuPlkyY5k Message-ID: <CAOtMX2i846kh56k=4oY_08BznCsjqjjJbfSKgQEyeMXpJgsCuQ@mail.gmail.com> Subject: Re: WRITE_SAME support in FreeBSD nfsd NFSv4.1 mode? To: Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.com> Cc: Cedric Blancher <cedric.blancher@gmail.com>, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-0.58 / 15.00]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.98)[-0.979]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.51)[-0.505]; RBL_SENDERSCORE_REPUT_7(0.50)[209.85.208.52:from]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; DMARC_POLICY_SOFTFAIL(0.10)[freebsd.org : SPF not aligned (relaxed), No valid DKIM,none]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[gmail.com,freebsd.org]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[gmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[asomers@freebsd.org,asomers@gmail.com]; MISSING_XM_UA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[209.85.208.52:from]; FREEFALL_USER(0.00)[asomers]; TAGGED_RCPT(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:209.85.128.0/17, country:US]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ip4:209.85.128.0/17]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[209.85.208.52:from] X-Spamd-Bar: / X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4YZds13wKCz3WB8 On Fri, Jan 17, 2025 at 5:03=E2=80=AFPM Rick Macklem <rick.macklem@gmail.co= m> wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 1:18=E2=80=AFPM Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org>= wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jan 12, 2025 at 12:23=E2=80=AFAM Cedric Blancher > > <cedric.blancher@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 at 16:02, Alan Somers <asomers@freebsd.org> wrote= : > > > > > > > > On Thu, Jan 9, 2025 at 5:31=E2=80=AFPM Dan Shelton <dan.f.shelton@g= mail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Hello! > > > > > > > > > > Does FreeBSD nfsd support the WRITE_SAME request in NFSv4.1 mode? > > > > > > > > > > Dan > > > > > -- > > > > > Dan Shelton - Cluster Specialist Win/Lin/Bsd > > > > > > > > Out of curiosity, what is your use case? > > > > > > As discussed in the linux-nfs@ list, is a typical "big data" and > > > database accelerator, for example fast pattern fill (1 WRITE_SAME > > > command over the write, compared to <n> commands with data block, > > > where <n> is typically > 200 average), or just zero fill for blocks. > > > It's basically reducing network traffic dramatically. > > > > > > Windows SMB 3.0 already supports that, and is a main selling point fo= r > > > M$ to keep database people on the W$ platform. They even added severa= l > > > Windows syscalls like > > > https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/winioctl/ni-winio= ctl-fsctl_set_zero_data > > > > > > Ced > > > > I understand why WRITE SAME would greatly reduce network traffic > > compared to writing the same data n times. But my question is, what > > real application requires that, where the data isn't simply all-zeros? > > Are there database operations that require writing the same non-zero > > pattern to multiple blocks? > You might find the discussion on the linux-nfs@vger.kernel.org > mailing list interesting. > It is under this subject line: > [LSF/MM/BPF TOPIC] Implementing the NFS v4.2 WRITE_SAME operation: VFS > or NFS ioctl() ? > > Although there is no consensus, it seems to me that there is not a lot > of use for anything beyond zeroing blocks. > Unfortunately a WRITE_SAME implementation needs to do a lot more > that zero blocks. > > I am holding off on any server implementation until there is an apparent = need. That sounds wise.