From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Oct 5 18:19:55 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B06B41398EF for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 18:19:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x830.google.com (mail-qt1-x830.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::830]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46lw565XwTz40ld for ; Sat, 5 Oct 2019 18:19:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x830.google.com with SMTP id u40so13348730qth.11 for ; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:19:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=bckf7Pgf1HT6Kc5mhZ7mPGUE+8ARSsf7cl5GGoRqvBo=; b=OMoSfAalUbL8ntaM0PSSsYXOMxCzTqJr4WiWcbLFMMcRaG1SHWEO4fAwxR9LGqfYYk qjMf5+RfZ65RnWMz5GapdJHKKcCE4cDFOz05A4DBob+o9DESxDcf/l12ubOuql4YZp0n DeT0JKaaMVRLmh2XMsX4xAJpAIXKQZU5/r872+ZrSftkS70ci2p/xXznnt5CaQNTnEAg LmqeBS2KVhMhU/mlqAbXawLDoTv8a/kXVpEbZElI1rZ8dpVdha87qSReLedvbUZQwHjW HV0HzuEWMspgfVbfxmvfBBWYJmTRHqIpWO/GLDaelPJ8eYwgXFywazVJCc3QcjHsDKnI yaRw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=bckf7Pgf1HT6Kc5mhZ7mPGUE+8ARSsf7cl5GGoRqvBo=; b=jeYGPciIPPdbbQkK3xEpqdr7/HNMg9oU9X9BSHdxC6tAhzKlyfDhtX5O3xUWbFLxjl nIV7tN+IlGgb7AWaBFcbre1d4stw2imguFSGBdYAYCo3BZ5TMDntlaH+JflP28wPR80d trZMPvNLFiPIkjKNvNU5yerumrswwIOTfqNxCBYd8gs2o/i3K/bJsWz/PMbsNGq1jXE4 OteSIyv9Lt9V4J1mBdjO6kFbjgw0TMq6l0WneOmTCgVrU6V9TBsSMOac4wiFXlS1pFSX LuUwsTbBvIs11uEePw8u5gqXyp8lTL23MGQXFObQlT3I2cm1suK0g213JKEuQ74abW8w BuiA== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAWCpArR1cVhwzrZY1ixgDX+BfGyij/kUkGF4h2s0m+X+TpR39Vt c2ZTDZyS7SEyNbzDVUNwo9SZNELj0ZUxzQFZTtJ6IgOF X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqxpxnWNJ/Vzasu2bxWqx29jdlabgTfuGxB3yct6crmE7PtFcVJlHYh3aOsulffnCXYKLYIQ7gSJnR5y6y/nC1k= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:3364:: with SMTP id u33mr22418997qta.187.1570299593461; Sat, 05 Oct 2019 11:19:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20191005173411.l6gs3kszs7zcgfey@mutt-hbsd> In-Reply-To: <20191005173411.l6gs3kszs7zcgfey@mutt-hbsd> From: Warner Losh Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2019 12:19:41 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New CPUTYPE default for i386 port To: Shawn Webb Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 46lw565XwTz40ld X-Spamd-Bar: ---- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=OMoSfAal; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::830) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-4.82 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[0.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; IP_SCORE(-2.82)[ip: (-9.33), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.56), asn: 15169(-2.15), country: US(-0.05)]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Oct 2019 18:19:55 -0000 On Sat, Oct 5, 2019, 11:34 AM Shawn Webb wrote: > On Sat, Oct 05, 2019 at 09:28:53AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > For a variety of reasons, the time has come to change the default code > > generation arch from i486 to i686 on our i386 port. No actual code > removal > > is planned as part of this effort. Only the default is doing changed for > > clang. > > > > The practical upshot of this for our i386 users will be zero for almost > > everybody. For the tiny sliver of people planning to deploy FreeBSD on a > > i486 or i586 core, a simple addition of CPUTYPE=xxxx to /etc/make.conf is > > all that is needed for the src side of things. They will need to setup > > their own poudriere instance and create their own pkg repo to build > > whatever packages are required for their deployment. > > > > It's my belief that even in the trailing edge long tail embedded > deployment > > segment of our user base this will cause no issues. All deployments there > > I'm aware of have moved of i486 class CPUs and the one 586 class core > > deployment I know of has no plans to update that to FreeBSD 11, let alone > > newer. > > > > There are a number of advantages to doing this which have been > articulated > > at length in other discussions. Briefly we get better code generation for > > CPUs people use and we avoid some test failures in llvm 9.0 because i486 > > doesn't have 64-bot atomics. > > > > Comments? > > Full disclosure: I personally don't care about 32-bit architectures. > Feel free to ignore me based on that. ;-) > > I'm curious about the possibilities regarding 64-bit time_t on 32-bit > Intel systems. > Beyond the scope of this discussion. However, feel free to start a thread on this. It's quite difficult to switch if you want binary compat. It would affect system calls on the upgrade path and is among the hardest types to change if you have any kind of legacy to support... Warner Thanks, > > -- > Shawn Webb > Cofounder / Security Engineer > HardenedBSD > > Tor-ified Signal: +1 443-546-8752 > Tor+XMPP+OTR: lattera@is.a.hacker.sx > GPG Key ID: 0xFF2E67A277F8E1FA > GPG Key Fingerprint: D206 BB45 15E0 9C49 0CF9 3633 C85B 0AF8 AB23 0FB2 >