From owner-freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Sep 26 17:40:11 2011 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-bugs@hub.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57BB0106566B for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:40:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from gnats@FreeBSD.org) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (freefall.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::28]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D12C8FC0A for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:40:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from freefall.freebsd.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8QHeAYx052815 for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:40:10 GMT (envelope-from gnats@freefall.freebsd.org) Received: (from gnats@localhost) by freefall.freebsd.org (8.14.4/8.14.4/Submit) id p8QHeAKE052814; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:40:10 GMT (envelope-from gnats) Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:40:10 GMT Message-Id: <201109261740.p8QHeAKE052814@freefall.freebsd.org> To: freebsd-bugs@FreeBSD.org From: Martin Tournoij Cc: Subject: Re: bin/160689: FreeBSD should have .cshrc updated for modern hardware and useful aliases installed by default X-BeenThere: freebsd-bugs@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: Martin Tournoij List-Id: Bug reports List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 17:40:11 -0000 The following reply was made to PR bin/160689; it has been noted by GNATS. From: Martin Tournoij To: bug-followup@FreeBSD.org, wkoszek@FreeBSD.org Cc: tcsh@mx.gw.com Subject: Re: bin/160689: FreeBSD should have .cshrc updated for modern hardware and useful aliases installed by default Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 19:38:44 +0200 Incidentally, I was thinking of the same thing yesterday. Too many times I've heard people complain about the "backward" tcsh shell, and everyone's heard about (but few have actually read) "csh programming considered harmful" and just assume tcsh is an old relic from the dark ages... Well, in part it is of course, but then again, one might argue half of UNIX is, in any case, it's an excellent interactive shell which works quite well IMHO. My two cents however: - Aliases are user specific. I don't think the default config should set a lot of complicated aliases (or completions). - Colors do not always work, the default tcsh/ls colors assume a white background and don't work too well on a black one. Good ol' grey/white *always* works. Linux, for example, almost always assumes a black background, as a white background user this can be *very* annoying if yellow or bright green text flashes across your screen). And white and black are only two choices ... Using the default monochrome is the only "safe" default. - A few options can be turned on by default, a quick look at my tcshrc: # Show options when autocompleting set autolist # Basic corrections when completing set autocorrect # Use history to aid expansion (Best hidden tcsh feature IMHO) set autoexpand # file completion set filec And maybe a few others such as rmstar or printexitval ... - Sourcing from /usr/share/tcs/misc.csh *by default* seems like a bad idea. Either make the changes to /etc/csh.cshrc or change the defaults upstream - There is already an advanced completion example in /usr/share/examples/tcsh/ ... More examples (aliases, options) can always be added ... A pointer in the login message or default cshrc might be a good idea ... ... Maybe it's a good idea to discus these changed upstream? tcsh has an active(-ish) mailing list with a few developers. I've CC-ed this email to the tcsh discussion list (tcsh@mx.gw.com)... Link to FreeBSD PR for tcsh people: http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=bin/160689 -- Martin Tournoij http://arp242.net | http://aragorn.nl | http://daemonforums.org QOTD: These activities have their own rules and methods of concealment which seek to mislead and obscure. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1960