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Date:      Fri, 21 Jul 2006 14:19:32 +0800
From:      "Intron" <mag@intron.ac>
To:        John-Mark Gurney <gurney_j@resnet.uoregon.edu>
Cc:        freebsd-hardware@freebsd.org
Subject:   Re: Improving FreeBSD's hardware compatibility
Message-ID:  <1153463627.84529@origin.intron.ac>
In-Reply-To: <20060721045029.GL96589@funkthat.com>
References:  <e6575a30607181811x3bedbeeajcaa5d1c0c6ef7293@mail.gmail.com> <20060720103228.GA716@turion.vk2pj.dyndns.org> <1153397244.66653@origin.intron.ac> <20060720181216.GJ96589@funkthat.com> <courier.44C0476F.00013FE2@intron.ac> <20060721045029.GL96589@funkthat.com>

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John-Mark Gurney wrote:

> Intron wrote this message on Fri, Jul 21, 2006 at 11:18 +0800:
>> John-Mark Gurney wrote:
>> 
>> >Intron wrote this message on Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 19:25 +0800:
>> >>On the other hand, so many hardware vendors (especially some small
>> >>enterprises, which are eager to obtain software support)
>> >>have publicized data sheets of their integrated circuit products,
>> >>but so few people would write hardware driver for FreeBSD.
>> >
>> >I haven't seen this.  The only case that I can think of is due to
>> >developers not having the hardware, or a need to use said hardware,
>> >so nothing happens...
>> >
>> >Do you have a list of hardware that has documntation available that
>> >needs device drivers to be written?
>> 
>> Well, I list all hardware products whose data sheets I've seen and which
>> haven't been supported by FreeBSD.
>> 
>> 1. Cologne Chip - HFC-S PCI A ISDN Controller IC
>>    http://www.colognechip.com/isdn/controllers/main-datasheets.htm
>> 
>>       FreeBSD only supports ihfc(4), its ISA version, but doesn't
>> support this PCI version.
> 
> If the programming interface is the same, then it should be a simple
> matter of writing a PCI front end, a good junior hacker project...
> 
>> 2. Sigmatel - STIR 4200, USB 1.1 - IrDA 1.3 adapter
>>    The data sheet was once published on their website. Both Linux and
>> NetBSD support this chip.
> 
> FreeBSD's USB stack needs some tender loving from someone...  There
> is an alternative stack I know exists but haven't looked at it yet...
> The current stack has many issues, and not being locked is a major
> issue...  so, before more drivers are written, we should get a working
> USB stack first...

I agree with you. But USB stack is quite a little complicated. I have
read USB specifications and bought a more understandable book. Would
you like to co-operate with me?

I would write USB stack in C++ so that base code can be easier to reuse.
But on freebsd-hackers@, this idea encountered strong objection.

> 
>> 3. Philips SAA 7130/7134, TV decoder
>>    This is one of the most popular TV decoder chips on the market.
>> The data sheet can be obtained from the vendor, just as what Linux
>> community has done.
> 
> analog TV? what's that?  isn't everyone going digital?  (yes, I know
> that analog TV will be with us for a long time due to security cams
> and other uses..)

Do you believe that current Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon XP can process
analog TV in full frame size and full frame rate (no larger than 767x575,
25 FPS, either of NTSC/PAL/SECAM) freely?

Do you really believe that current Intel Pentium 4 or AMD Athlon XP
can process much higher bitstream HDTV?

> 
> But a decoder isn't much use w/o the rest of the chip... This driver
> really should be in userland anyways, no point in putting items like
> this in the kernel...  bktr should be broken out where it's just a
> DMA engine, and all the tuner chips are drivers in userland speaking
> over the iic device interface...
> 
>> 4. USB MIDI device class
>>    http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
>> 
>> 5. USB IrDA device class
>>    http://www.usb.org/developers/devclass_docs
>> 
>>      Some new USB-IrDA chips conform to this specification.
>> 
>> 6. TI 3410/5052 USB-RS232C adapter
>>    http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tusb3410.html
>>    http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tusb5052.html
>> 
>>      Please have a look at those Linux device drive websites and perceive
>> the disparity that FreeBSD falls behind:
>> 
>> Modem:               http://linmodems.org/
>> Video:               http://linux.bytesex.org/
>> Temperature sensor:  http://www.lm-sensors.org/
>> USB PC Camera:       http://mxhaard.free.fr/spca5xx.html
> 
> See above about USB...
> 
>>      Although not all data sheets have been publicized by vendors, but
>> at least FreeBSDers can follow/keep up with Linux community, cannot we?
> 
> a) some drivers that aren't that high visibility don't get the
> demand/attention that they necessarily deserve...  Mostly because
> there is only one or two people interested...  There are a couple
> video capture drivers (saa and cxm) that both are apparently ready,
> but haven't yet been integrated...  I did send mail asking about the
> cxm licensing issues (it has firmware necessary for operation), but
> never got a response...

As a FreeBSD user, I must make enough psychological preparations before
you try FreeBSD on new hardware. If I find FreeBSD doesn't support it,
I will have not a bit amazement.

Your being ignored is not out of a clear sky. Maybe your E-mail had been
filtered as spam.

Once I telephoned VIMICRO (www.vimicro.com, in Beijing, only a few
kilometers far away from my dwelling), whose IC products have been
installed in cheap USB PC cameras sold all over the world (USB PID 0x0ac8).
The technical support staff kicked me to sales staff. But in the end,
a salesman told me an "official" agreement is required for official
data sheet.

Only if you telephone or send registered paper mail to those vendors
will you probably get a reply/answer. As a committer, you may try to
get help from FreeBSD Foundation.

> 
> b) Many times the vendors ignore FreeBSD... DVIco has continued to
> fail to provide me w/ the necessary docs, but I think this is more
> because the person that is providing the docs is asleep at the wheel
> as others seem to want to give them out, but it's hard when it takes
> a lot more...  Most of the stuff above are small little ones that
> the vendors don't really care about, but the ones that are really
> useful and not as easy to find alternatives are much harder...
> 
> Get writing the drivers...  It's a lot easier than people think...
> 
> -- 
>   John-Mark Gurney				Voice: +1 415 225 5579
> 
>      "All that I will do, has been done, All that I have, has not."
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