From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jan 9 17:59:43 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3CFC016A4CE for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from saturn.criticalmagic.com (saturn.criticalmagic.com [68.213.16.21]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDA6F43D5A for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 17:59:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from richardcoleman@mindspring.com) Received: from mindspring.com (titan.criticalmagic.com [68.213.16.23]) by saturn.criticalmagic.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649E23BD2A for ; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 20:59:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3FFF5C93.9010605@mindspring.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 20:59:47 -0500 From: Richard Coleman Organization: Critical Magic, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: hackers@freebsd.org References: <20040107235737.I32227@pooker.samsco.home> <3FFF5438.40709@mindspring.com> In-Reply-To: <3FFF5438.40709@mindspring.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: Discussion on the future of floppies in 5.x and 6.x X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list Reply-To: richardcoleman@mindspring.com List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2004 01:59:43 -0000 Richard Coleman wrote: > Scott Long wrote: > >> All, >> >> Every FreeBSD release cycle in the past year has hit bumps due to install >> floppy problems. This is becoming more and more of a burden on the >> Release Engineering Team, as we simply do not have the resources to >> constantly battle the floppies. >> >> FreeBSD/i386 is the only port left that generates install floppies. >> Their primary purpose is to fascilitate installing FreeBSD on systems >> where a CDROM is either not available or is incompatible with the >> 'Non-Emulated El Torito' boot method that we use on our CDs. Systems >> that >> cannot boot these CDs are typically those that are also not certified for >> WinNT4, Win2K, or WinXP. Thus, nearly all machines produced after 1997 >> can boot our CDs. >> >> It is certainly possible to run FreeBSD 5.x on machines of this and prior >> vintage, and I certainly do not want to dispute or question any motives >> here. However, the number of machines in this category is steadily >> declining as time goes on, while the effort put into supporting install >> floppies seems to be on the rise. I certainly do not want to orphan >> these >> machines, so we need to find a compromise. >> >> One solution is to find a dedicated 'floppy maintainer' that will >> frequently assess the floppies during the normal developement periods and >> work closely with the Release Engineering team to ensure that there are >> few surprises when it's time to cut a release. I would expect this >> person >> to develop and execute a test plan that covers all of the common aspects >> of installing via floppy: basic sanity checks, loading drivers, >> installing >> via the various mechanisms, etc. This person should also be comfortable >> with modifying makefiles and the sysinstall source. >> >> The other solution is to replace install floppies with an 'Emulated El >> Torito' CD image. I'm not going to go into the differences between >> 'non-emulated' and 'emulated' except to say that 'emulated' is the method >> used on FreeBSD 4.x (and prior), Win95, and Win98. Virtually every >> system >> in existance that supports a CDROM supports this method. This image >> would >> contain the loader, kernel, and MFS root, just like the current >> 'bootonly.iso' image, but would be configured for emulated booting. >> Users >> could download this image, burn it, boot it, and then install FreeBSD >> just >> like they normally would. Of course this adds the requirement of needing >> a CD burner, but these devices are becoming common enough that it could >> be a reasonable expectation. >> >> Switching to this method doesn't entirely remove the headache of release >> floppies, but it does make it signficantly easier to deal with them. The >> 'emulated' method actually uses a 2.88MB floppy image that combines the >> first two 1.44MB floppies that we traditionally produce. By combining >> them, we have a bit more flexibility since the driver modules that are on >> the second floppy can go back into the kernel image and benefit from the >> compression that happens there. >> >> So, this is something to consider before 5.3. After that, we are >> stuck with the consequences of whatever we choose (or don't choose) for >> the entire 5.x lifespan. I do not cherish the thought of fighting >> floppies for another 2-3 years. I'm happy to work with someone who steps >> forward and is committed to maintaining the floppies as they are today. >> Otherwise, we need to seriously consider the alternative. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Scott > > > I apologize if this is a dumb question. But rather than using two > floppies during the install process, why not three or four? > > Richard Coleman > richardcoleman@mindspring.com Sorry, I just got caught up on the list, and see that this has already been discussed. Ignore the question. Richard Coleman richardcoleman@mindspring.com