From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Fri Mar 1 02:45:37 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6153B15001ED for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:45:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x834.google.com (mail-qt1-x834.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::834]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8A2626F84C for ; Fri, 1 Mar 2019 02:45:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x834.google.com with SMTP id d18so26095141qtg.12 for ; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:45:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=NS5725Rwz8HMRTittjMxTckP4/WymnyrgK2TKnYWi4k=; b=BCfomf3z9HPe3+uvWu1vKPZeSAYmHbStxa2KAOeBvBJt/2zPVgRaAjnHGXmVLJw7uD R3v/5DIrRePeeae741iDIXnKvEH5mTin30jF58Gk9FIrxwZfknIVic9GcC51OSJAWUiO 2VpTW0JlHoWff7ZLvExTy71iVXkquoDpAL2ZZdvziac9rYNuWKSvi+ezNnN13Et0E1jQ Klsu/K2B8LFHS+cJ2ky/xxRQWTHpSSHTwcV9VZ3Hmm92x59y1fdagOnXlLbzQpDSBtsY y8nm4VCkLO7yGj7OCnpeUXQiUVSnCFL5HmaypFf90Ic6qw4Nwe+ZZ+bJGsGOUOSzU35s wEpQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=NS5725Rwz8HMRTittjMxTckP4/WymnyrgK2TKnYWi4k=; b=K4ZHsD+tJQbP7/oSldxJdq0OUI45MGtZsb0R4tVD+P0H2eCjEQlAJ8kV/mhFRvNxZ4 QHHoaWkmFAe+FDYOyWXL/H2toLLcoQjoMame/UkpSJRmqPNG5fLABfusHJUBWpMoErFL 7rYzft4L/v3f86l+3Hn5vnuV4xMV2Kw0FoZ7oSgSEH9WoZf8BoDtOfkvWh2Yq20/Kx5a RA5RY3Dcdmsalzefpm2Zz9lSvsZ5sqRiyjtWfPR6EjAnfGu4VUwhqQuWWhWHYCvDdgsD pNBdDUzdaEE7Fr5VZX9uAdKQroBPewywrSpWu5lTD2WsfKGuD6QrBX1f6yz8bBHhhZ18 Q0Ag== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAUMqUCDHhPttM5wwryD6s4szPw0XvbYLufG7+wliJAbSr6WnhtA PwhMYUDoSEZIUOPIR7eJXOWvpnISWbFg3cWDwu9TnQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqyN4HSluJDuYQRW8kfNep9Y00r6FNeMaHQTpWa2ZhaVhPvv2M4vX+5p4EdlvKYaSR3CWoAakfDX7mn7Mls/LqM= X-Received: by 2002:a0c:987a:: with SMTP id e55mr2019002qvd.21.1551408335869; Thu, 28 Feb 2019 18:45:35 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20190228194929.GA18747@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <201902282034.x1SKYWMi006337@slippy.cwsent.com> <20190228210635.GA31257@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190228230701.GA59003@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> <20190301010303.GA59806@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2019 19:45:24 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: DRM removal soon To: "A. Wilcox" Cc: Steve Kargl , Doug Kirk , FreeBSD X11 mailing list , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 8A2626F84C X-Spamd-Bar: ----- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=BCfomf3z X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-5.40 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; TO_DN_EQ_ADDR_SOME(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; RCPT_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MX_GOOD(-0.01)[cached: ALT1.aspmx.l.google.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[4.3.8.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.2.0.0.4.6.8.4.0.b.8.f.7.0.6.2.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.71)[-0.708,0]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; IP_SCORE(-2.68)[ip: (-8.60), ipnet: 2607:f8b0::/32(-2.71), asn: 15169(-2.03), country: US(-0.07)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2019 02:45:37 -0000 On Thu, Feb 28, 2019 at 6:27 PM A. Wilcox wrote: > On 02/28/19 19:03, Steve Kargl wrote: > > drm2 was removed from the base in the last few days. > > > > Cy Shubert has already started the conversation of now dropping > > drm-legacy-kmod. > > > > The FreeBSD project wants to move to pkg-base. Hopefully, > drm2/drm-legacy > > is not the shape of things to come. > It's certainly been a learning experience. > I'm sorry to be blunt, but after a month of this, can we all just admit > that FreeBSD does not care about, nor support, arches other than amd64? > I think this is a bit harsh. The project does care about other arch. We've put a crapton of a work into arm and arm64 for example. > Then all the fighting about this stuff can just be done, and people who > care about things other than new shiny garbage can work on projects that > agree with them. > The project has always had tension between the new and the old. Sometimes it has been beneficial, other times less so. The project needs to have the space to have these discussions, even if sometimes they go a bit far. In the end, a number of new things were learned about what was and wasn't working. We learned that drm2 never worked with PAE. We learned about -m32 to create 32-bit binaries, and that the FPU is programmed the same. We've learned the cost of keeping drm2 around is keeping obsolete xf86-ati-video drivers as well since the ABI of drm and xf86*video software has evolved beyond the level we had in drm2. So while this discussion has had some excesses, misinterpretations, grumpiness, hurt feelings, and frustration, it's also revealed many truths that weren't widely known before. We could do the former better, but the latter is undeniably a good thing. Warner