From owner-freebsd-stable@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jul 7 16:39:07 2014 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 54227913 for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qc0-x234.google.com (mail-qc0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c01::234]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13468278F for ; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 16:39:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qc0-f180.google.com with SMTP id r5so4074566qcx.11 for ; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 09:39:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:content-type; bh=j5iV3hyfD2ncKH4kslXAvhPyrQ6rBo/ZnbmTs1quBP0=; b=zO0p+O/NXppSdHjz3yjMVH9pGElBhQORJg2PPBxTS8O7iLh1ZdTmd2OMtT5WuGcJEe gmsoVQ6OxFR2Tbls5cLIlIyPeYLs2+LPhzlLAT8K8xviErDX2vIv6jYsYzcypgEcrS4u 08gZRp+IfyG6ofi+75Nhgecub8lCPBT5nrOK+pZO0jmRJFr79TZIOWFa4ymfmzvGRWer jKyV8YoetiyIX9t0IPqhoOBpqkmQKiCqOtGKCVbRsGoDS8bizdZitNWFRjR7LNBforqT LF+KaQxDqc+1N8uZGzbSwe8nfrXY6+zzKQwTOzFZpAT13WZzDv2mjORvGjON/eAFMk2l enPw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.229.103.130 with SMTP id k2mr48215911qco.1.1404751146173; Mon, 07 Jul 2014 09:39:06 -0700 (PDT) Sender: adrian.chadd@gmail.com Received: by 10.224.202.193 with HTTP; Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:39:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20140707095825.GB1074@rwpc15.gfn.riverwillow.net.au> References: <53B69B88.4060803@gmail.com> <20140705103235.GB7680@rwpc15.gfn.riverwillow.net.au> <20140707095825.GB1074@rwpc15.gfn.riverwillow.net.au> Date: Mon, 7 Jul 2014 09:39:06 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: mMhU9f0ffSNm3ZS1Lt2oOqmIBcc Message-ID: Subject: Re: Should 9.3 carry a warning about NEW_XORG From: Adrian Chadd To: FreeBSD Stable Mailing List Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2014 16:39:07 -0000 On 7 July 2014 02:58, John Marshall wrote: > On Sat, 05 Jul 2014, 11:46 -0700, Adrian Chadd wrote: >> The TL;DR reason for going up to building with new-xorg is because >> without it, an increasing number of X related ports plainly won't >> build anymore. They assume the newer X and DRI libraries. > > Thank you for this explanation: it helps. > >> So the choice is (a) new_xorg and pain, (b) no new_xorg and a lot of X >> packages not getting upgraded any further, (c) more work on the ports >> maintainers to try and figure out ways to work around an increasingly >> impossible situation. There's also (d) - don't bother with 9.3. > > and (e) add WITHOUT_NEW_XORG to make.conf and upgrade to 9.3; > understanding that this really is the end of the road for X on older > hardware. 9.2 is EOL in a couple of months, so upgrading to 9.3 without > breaking X makes sense to me. Right - but once that knob goes away (because there's only new-xorg) then they'll start updating packages to the latest upstream releases and they may not even compile on your pre-new-Xorg. That will pull in versions of the DRI libraries that won't work. So it's not just going to break your Xorg compilation - it's just plainly not going to work. >> The X ports team has a fast moving target to keep track of and we're >> still not anywhere near the bleeding edge of Linux graphics rendering >> support and all the graphics stuff that moves with it. As much as I >> hate to see lots of churn, it's a losing battle. > > Again, thanks for explaining the X-related development/upgrade dilemma. > The reason for my OP was that bad things happened, unexpectedly, with NO > warning or explanation. Oh, absolutely. I think some of us are just .. not good at communicating technology changes. :) I kinda wished that the Xorg development wouldn't break older graphics rendering so hard, but alas, what drives that is the hardware innovation cycle and not the "holy shit you mean we need to use this for 10 years?" cycle. -a