From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Wed Nov 22 19:22:46 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31233DF3555; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:22:46 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 080B065F0A; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:22:45 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from benno@FreeBSD.org) Received: from compute1.internal (compute1.nyi.internal [10.202.2.41]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DB1B20CDF; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:22:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from frontend2 ([10.202.2.161]) by compute1.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:22:44 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; bh=HuuC+v wvY2jloAApGavsrMdnPzWqW6ybjD04CNua000=; b=Qoeabe/e7+hh7pWQgePDSp 4/ShbUfZVsPK5gzY9o+F9b8qHqbrCB3xdpeKdwykIKhqmBA6aTS0GElhaGP35+MU /eM8GJxxlyasWQO2unDkstv7DT0MofEEZve5kCqoGv9KaMQoxKMMdAgri7xz8AGJ eDdLaherg4mA1s2U7rFz/SqOEv969ouHC6XXOXdaWuMb2pY2u8UFhnZ9VYChLrzs iLqU2uN9YQNtNtVRK/ITQCRBmF6QkUE7Zu5BYMkgw0g8xcG3I/s5PrDZoKnHPxE+ qjV45TsnCMQfrn7hY2wkJXaKG785TrIy+zE3IeMVGNGsF2JdmVyiPeo4FUJefkVQ == X-ME-Sender: Received: from usxxscottdm1.corp.emc.com (c-71-231-121-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net [71.231.121.16]) by mail.messagingengine.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA id 9EEA124810; Wed, 22 Nov 2017 14:22:43 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.1 \(3445.4.7\)) Subject: Re: The future of fortune(6) From: Benno Rice In-Reply-To: <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 11:22:41 -0800 Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <64AB4D76-B239-4E49-8D30-CF6D5D5D88A4@FreeBSD.org> References: <66D39828-ADBA-4973-BEB8-B2F6657E9996@FreeBSD.org> <20171122173537.GA54395@troutmask.apl.washington.edu> To: sgk@troutmask.apl.washington.edu X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.4.7) X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2017 19:22:46 -0000 > On Nov 22, 2017, at 09:35, Steve Kargl = wrote: >=20 > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 08:29:46AM -0800, Benno Rice wrote: >>=20 >> With the removal of the fortune datfiles I think it=E2=80=99s time to >> have a discussion about fortune(6). >=20 > There should have been a discussion before the removal, but > your method prevented an inevitable bikeshed. You=E2=80=99re correct in that my intent was to avoid pointless = discussion. We=E2=80=99ve got bigger and more fun things to work on than = coming up with an editorial policy as to what is or isn=E2=80=99t = appropriate in the fortune datfiles. >> fortune now defaults to using a fortune file that no longer exists: >=20 > When functionality is removed from src, a port is usually created. > The datfiles should be available from ports/games/bsd-fortune. Feel free to create it. If someone else wants to take editorial = responsibility for those files I=E2=80=99m all for it. FreeBSD should = not be taking responsibility for them and I don=E2=80=99t wish to take = that responsibility either. >> $ fortune >> No fortunes found in = /usr/share/games/fortune:/usr/local/share/games/fortune. >>=20 >> fortune is still used in the default .login/.profile to show entries >> from the still existing freebsd-tips: >>=20 >> $ grep fortune /usr/share/skel/* >> /usr/share/skel/dot.login:if ( -x /usr/bin/fortune ) /usr/bin/fortune = freebsd-tips >> /usr/share/skel/dot.profile:if [ -x /usr/bin/fortune ] ; then = /usr/bin/fortune freebsd-tips ; fi >> $ fortune freebsd-tips >> If you need a reminder to leave your terminal, type "leave +hhmm" = where >> "hhmm" represents in how many hours and minutes you need to leave. >> -- Dru >>=20 >> fortune also still has flags for showing offensive entries and the = like. >>=20 >=20 > What is offensive to one person may not offend another person. What > if someone objects to quotes by Dru (sorry Dru looks like you got=20 > picked at random above). The above looks like an attack on people > with memory loss issues (age discrimination?). Will you remove Dru's > quotes? Nice try. The freebsd-tips collection has some useful stuff which is why = I put forward the idea of keeping it. Comments like this are exactly why = I got rid of everything else. >> I would like people=E2=80=99s opinion on which of the following two = paths we >> should take: >>=20 >> 1) Complete removal of fortune and freebsd-tips, remove its usage = from >> the default .login/.profile files. >=20 > Create ports/games/bsd-fortune. Be my guest. >> 2) Reworking fortune(6) to remove the offensive fortune flag and >> make freebsd-tips the default, possibly by symlinking it as >> /usr/share/games/fortune/fortunes. >=20 > 3) Restore the datfiles. Add a WITHOUT_FORTUNE knob and set it > as the default. This allows an individual to tailor her system > to meet her needs without having others force a politically=20 > correct revisionist history on them. Oh please. If you want the datfiles they=E2=80=99re there in history. If = you want to be the one distributing them, go ahead. I=E2=80=99m fairly = sure that the availability of quotes regarding, or by, Hitler or anyone = else has been diminished by a rounding error or less by us no longer = distributing the datfiles. FreeBSD is an operating system, not an = encyclopedia. > This will be my one and only post in this bikeshed. Given the=20 > sudden removal of the datfiles without discussion. This appears > to be a perfunctory discussion prior to you pursuing your own > choice. Think of me whatever you want, I=E2=80=99m not fussed. I=E2=80=99m = asking with 100% honest intentions what the community wants to do with = this tool. If the consensus is for retaining fortune for use with the = freebsd-tips datfile then I=E2=80=99m absolutely cool with that. I made a unilateral decision to remove a potential source of pointless = distraction. I could=E2=80=99ve unilaterally removed fortune entirely at = that point but I didn=E2=80=99t as the freebsd-tips aspect appears to = have actual utility and is something we can easily manage. The other = files weren=E2=80=99t. If they=E2=80=99re important to you, please feel = free to check out either r325781 (if you want the files) or r325095 (if = you want the files with the Hitler quotes) and maintain them yourself. Cheers, Benno.=