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Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 27a8840a9b3f19e09204d6b8836b6dfa; Mon, 17 Nov 2025 19:53:38 +0000 (UTC) From: Mark Millard Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Archive: https://lists.freebsd.org/archives/freebsd-arch List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: Sender: owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3826.700.81\)) Subject: What's the plan for powerpc64 in FreeBSD 16 [little endian too is listed for removal] Message-Id: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 11:53:28 -0800 To: Warner Losh , freebsd-arch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3826.700.81) References: X-Spamd-Bar: --- X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.98 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-1.000]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.98)[-0.984]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[yahoo.com,reject]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[yahoo.com:s=s2048]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[yahoo.com]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[yahoo.com:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:36647, ipnet:98.137.64.0/20, country:US]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[98.137.65.205:from]; MLMMJ_DEST(0.00)[freebsd-arch@freebsd.org]; APPLE_MAILER_COMMON(0.00)[]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[98.137.65.205:from]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[yahoo.com:dkim] X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4d9JMt0pL6z3DvY Warner Losh wrote on Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2025 16:57:57 UTC : > Greetings, > > As we're getting close to the release date for FreeBSD 15.0, it's time to > take stock of another architectures. This time, I'd like your feedback on > the following plans. > > We'd like to retire powerpc64 and powerpc64le just before the FreeBSD > stable/16 branch. > > This would give powerpc64 another two years of support in main, followed by > sustaining support on stable/14 and stable/15 until the end of those > branches. > > We've come to this point because the port is dwindling and we have a cost > associated with keeping it around. The number of developers has fallen off > so only a couple remain. Issues in powerpc are taking longer and longer to > discover and resolve. The hardware has been a huge source of frustration > for clusteradmin and we've no alternative for developers. There's only a > tiny user base. We have trouble building packages for it. Also, powerpc has > a number of interesting features of the architecture that make it the odd > arch out. > > It's also big endian. While that may seem like a reason to keep it around, > if we really can't support it and we're not actively testing functionality > of the system, then keeping this around actually doesn't help keep us > honest. It just gives us a burden we must bear. > > In my opinion, powerpc64 appears to have already fallen below critical > mass, despite being a sentimental favorite for a number of FreeBSD > developers. As such, I'd like us to consider planning to retire it before > we branch 16. > > My questions today: Are you using this port? How many people are using it? > And what's the installed base? It appears to be somewhat less than that of > either i386 or armv7 based on user surveys and popularity at conferences. > Also, any other comments you might have. A lot of the responses you are getting seem to make no mention of little endian also being dropped: you also listed powerpc64le (not just the Big Endian powerpc64 support). I here remind folks that all powerpc64* is being proposed for removal from the active part of the git repository. (The history stays available.) [I'm one of the folks that used to use old hardware that FreeBSD only supports in Big Endian mode: old PowerMacs. But they died years ago and I stopped having any type of powerpc* context available. I never had access to a modern enough context for FreeBSD to support little endian use.] So: I've no reason to object to all powerpc64* support being moved. The proposal certainly gives folks time to transition to 15.* or other options for such hardware. === Mark Millard marklmi at yahoo.com