From owner-freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Thu Oct 4 17:42:52 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-fcp@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE72610B445C for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:42:52 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Received: from outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org (outbound2r.ore.mailhop.org [54.200.129.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B1AE7B84D for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 17:42:51 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) X-MHO-RoutePath: aGlwcGll X-MHO-User: a5fd50ef-c7fa-11e8-a70c-1d534e3451d5 X-Report-Abuse-To: https://support.duocircle.com/support/solutions/articles/5000540958-duocircle-standard-smtp-abuse-information X-Originating-IP: 67.177.211.60 X-Mail-Handler: DuoCircle Outbound SMTP Received: from ilsoft.org (unknown [67.177.211.60]) by outbound2.ore.mailhop.org (Halon) with ESMTPSA id a5fd50ef-c7fa-11e8-a70c-1d534e3451d5; Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:26:40 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rev (rev [172.22.42.240]) by ilsoft.org (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTP id w94HQbEx000310; Thu, 4 Oct 2018 11:26:37 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from ian@freebsd.org) Message-ID: <1538673997.14264.9.camel@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers From: Ian Lepore To: Warner Losh , michelle@sorbs.net Cc: FreeBSD-STABLE Mailing List , FreeBSD Net , "freebsd-arch@freebsd.org" , freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 11:26:37 -0600 In-Reply-To: References: <20181003210516.GA71565@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <55a44e73-60ab-e386-360a-b0a0198a0e71@zyxst.net> <8878cac1-d5d2-4224-6aa5-85516db23c14@sorbs.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.18.5.1 FreeBSD GNOME Team Port Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-fcp@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.27 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Community Proposals List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2018 17:42:52 -0000 On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > wrote: > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks.  Brooks as > > far as I can see is just the messenger. > > > Absent good data, one has to make one's best guesses. I guessed wrong here > in my comments to Brooks about which ones were must keeps. I knew it was > popular back in the day (~2000), but had thought it's popularity had waned > much more than it apparently has. I last deployed systems with rl in them > around 2007, and at the time it was trailing edge gear (the SBCs we used at > Timing Solutions tended to use popular, but ~5-year-old technology because > that market segment wanted longevity of spare availability...). > > Warner 11 years later, we (Timing Solutions, now a division of Microchip) are still using SBCs with rl(4) hardware and still shipping software updates with that driver built into the kernel. We build systems with a lifespan in the field of 20 years or more, and the stability and compatibility across OS upgrades over that kind of span is a BIG reason to use freebsd rather than linux for such things. -- Ian