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Date:      Wed, 22 Sep 2010 16:23:37 +0100
From:      Gavin Atkinson <gavin@FreeBSD.org>
To:        Andriy Gapon <avg@FreeBSD.org>
Cc:        svn-src-head@FreeBSD.org, svn-src-all@FreeBSD.org, src-committers@FreeBSD.org
Subject:   Re: svn commit: r212964 - head/sys/kern
Message-ID:  <1285169017.64197.29.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk>
In-Reply-To: <4C9A1602.4020204@freebsd.org>
References:  <201009211507.o8LF7iVv097676@svn.freebsd.org> <1285163200.64197.10.camel@buffy.york.ac.uk> <4C9A1602.4020204@freebsd.org>

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On Wed, 2010-09-22 at 17:43 +0300, Andriy Gapon wrote:
> on 22/09/2010 16:46 Gavin Atkinson said the following:
> > Ignoring the rest of the discussion about locking, I think this is a
> > step in the right direction.  However, what I feel we should be strongl=
y
> > considering is for textdumps to be enabled by default on release media.
> >=20
> > As more groups choose to use the kernels from the release media (PC-BSD=
,
> > FreeNAS, etc) and put them into places where end users are never
> > expected to recompile kernels, having textdumps enabled by default in
> > RELEASE kernels becomes a bigger and bigger priority.  Groups like
> > PC-BSD don't necessarily have the time or skills to do the needed kerne=
l
> > debugging (and nor should they have to, it's not their purpose), so
> > anything we can do in releases to make sure we have enough info to
> > resolve panics seen by their users is a big bonus.
> >=20
> > Is there any real reason why we shouldn't go down this route?
>=20
> textdumps need DDB.
> textdumps also need dumpdev which is not enabled by default in
> /etc/defaults/rc.conf, but that's easier to fix for any individual user o=
r a
> FreeBSD "distribution".

Indeed, I was happy to see dumpdev enabled on 7.x, and disappointed to
see it disabled on 8.x.

> I originally suggested to include DDB in the stable GENERICs.
> But that has a number of consequences:
> 1. With DDB a panic results in a system going to ddb prompt instead of re=
booting,
> unless KDB_UNATTENDED is also specified.  System not rebooting on panic m=
ay be a
> POLA violation and an inconvenience.  However, a user can change this usi=
ng
> debug.debugger_on_panic=3D0 sysctl.  Although, sysctl time might be too l=
ate in some
> cases, not sure.

Indeed, if we went down this route we would have to make sure that the
existing behaviour of rebooting is preserved.  We'd also have to ensure
Ctrl-Alt-Escape doesn't drop to the debugger on release media.

> For me personally, the significant benefits outweigh possible minor/tempo=
rary
> inconveniences and surprises, but this opinion is not shared by all devel=
opers.

I (and I suspect any of the other people on the PR database frontline)
would probably support this :)

> Really besides the point, but such FreeBSD "distributions" like FreeNAS a=
nd PC-BSD
> can really use their own kernel config, they don't have to use the same G=
ENERICs.

Indeed, although in some ways they shouldn't have to.  Having textdumps
enabled by default would also be a huge win for us, of course.

> P.S. I think that it would have been better if you followed up to my prop=
osal on
> arch@.

I'm not subscribed to -arch at the moment, I probably should be.  I
guess you're talking about the thread in June?  I wish I'd seen that at
the time, I'm 100% in favour of it.

Gavin
--=20
Gavin Atkinson
FreeBSD committer and bugmeister
GPG: A093262B (313A A79F 697D 3A5C 216A  EDF5 935D EF44 A093 262B)



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