From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Nov 8 20:02:57 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0770C16A4CE for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:02:57 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com (mail.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.192.90]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605B843D48 for ; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 20:02:56 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) Received: from tedwin2k (nat-rtr.freebsd-corp-net-guide.com [65.75.197.130]) iA8K1qv33451; Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:01:52 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from tedm@toybox.placo.com) From: "Ted Mittelstaedt" To: "gabriel" Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 12:01:52 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) In-Reply-To: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org cc: "R. W." Subject: RE: DSL support X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 20:02:57 -0000 Why would I be recommending against Linksys if I worked for Cisco? Didn't you know that Cisco owns Linksys? And why would I be recommending in favor of a PC setup as a router if I worked for Cisco? Sounds to me like you didn't read the post throughly. Next time quit shooting from the hip. Ted > -----Original Message----- > From: gabriel [mailto:normal1.lists@gmail.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 07, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: R. W.; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > Subject: Re: DSL support > > > lol, do you work for cisco? - Overall, his views are agreeable. > Or get cable! :\ > > > On Sun, 7 Nov 2004 01:49:34 -0800, Ted Mittelstaedt > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > > [mailto:owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]On Behalf Of R. W. > > > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 4:40 PM > > > To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org > > > Subject: Re: DSL support > > > > > > > > > On Saturday 06 November 2004 15:34, Mark wrote: > > > > I am on sbc dsl and found this page covered the setup. > > > > > > > > http://renaud.waldura.com/doc/freebsd/pppoe/ > > > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 05, 2004 at 09:54:30AM -0800, William Scott wrote: > > > > > Dear Sir or Madam, > > > > > > > > > > Is there any support/documentation for configuring FreeBSD for > > > > > use with a DSL modem (my ISP is SBC)? > > > > > > I recently had some trouble in setting up an ADSL modem (it > didn't work > > > with 5.2.1). What I did in the end was buy a 4-port ADSL NAT router, > > > and I think it's actually for the best. They are quite cheap these > > > days, and they have some strong advantages over a basic modem. > > > > > > > Hi R.W., > > > > I work at an ISP and before anyone goes running off and buying a > > ADSL router please consider this. > > > > We have recommended these for the past 3 years now, for DSL lines, > > ever since we started selling DSL. The big advantage of them from > > our point of view is that windows systems tend to not get infected > > with viruses as rapidly - thus we get fewer support calls. The > > primary one we have always recommended has been the Linksys BEFSR41. > > This one has several advantages - it can act as a router -or- address > > translator, it has logging, and can send the log to a remote syslogger > > host. (there is a program someone wrote for FreeBSD that captures the > > log output, BTW) > > > > HOWEVER - we are no longer recommending the Linksys devices. Why - > > because over the last 3 months we have had an increasing number of them > > which have been installed for several years, just fail. And > the failures > > aren't pretty. Usually the packet flows through the router > start getting > > slower and slower, and the user gets an increasing number of > disconnections > > from websites and such that they go to. It is insidious, and very very > > difficult to tell the difference from either a congested ISP or virus > > activity, so most often the user just gets more and more dissatisfied > > with their DSL line, never realizing it's the cheap router that's the > > problem. When things get bad enough they start power-cycling the router > > and that 'fixes' things for a few hours, and the customer > > gets the impression that this is 'normal' for these devices. > > > > It has almost cost us several customers as the customer blames the ISP > > for slowness and not their $35 cheapass device. And initially when it > > started happening, we didn't catch on that quick. And we have spent > > far too much time with troubleshooting them now. Unfortunately a number > > of business customers we have, put these devices in a couple years back > > when they signed up, and now these are coming back to haunt us. > > > > And the thing that really scares me is that we have recently had a > > few of these problems show up with dlink and other > manufacturers devices. > > I am just hoping that this isn't the start of a trend. > > > > Today what we recommend ethernet-to-ethernet Cisco routers or Cisco > > PIX firewalls for businesses. The PIX and modern Cisco IOS can be > > setup to speak PPPoE directly. And a used 10-user PIX 501 can be had > > on Ebay fairly cheaply, I have seen them go as cheap as $200, and it > > is ideal for a home setup - assuming that is, that someone at the house > > is really in to networking and wants to work with the real equipment > > that industry uses, not the toys that you get at Fry's. > > > > And for home users that are technical but too cheap to do that, I tell > > them to use a PC setup as a router, NOT one of these. > > > > Unfortunately we have way too many nontechnical windows users > who these > > devices are pretty much the only way they have of putting up a firewall. > > Nowadays when I talk with one of them I put the Fear of God into them > > about these devices with instructions to call immediately if they notice > > the slightest problem with their connections, and I cross my fingers > > that when the time comes for the device to die, that they remember what > > I told them. > > > > One last thing with these, while they can do a lot, if you need to > > run a pptp server, it is very problematic to get them to work. At least > > when using a FreeBSD system as a router, you get a real public IP number > > on the outside interface, rather than everything being private, and > > if you want to run a server, you will have fewest problems with this > > setup over the long run. > > > > Ted > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > -- > gabriel, > > Member of: > FreeBSD-Announce > FreeBSD-Hardware > FreeBSD-Multimedia > FreeBSD-questions >