Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2001 10:26:03 -0800 From: "Jeremiah Gowdy" <jeremiah@sherline.com> To: "Peter Grigor" <p_grigor@yahoo.com>, <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: Prevalence of FreeBSD and UNIX among servers Message-ID: <00e601c17cf1$21912f10$03e2cbd8@server> References: <20011204175956.52893.qmail@web20705.mail.yahoo.com>
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I agree with your position completely. Although perhaps I didn't make my point too clearly. Their grip on the desktop gives them a grip on the servers, in many companies. I would suggest taking the angle I take, by demonstrating how well a FreeBSD/Samba server works with a network of Windows desktops. I explain how nice it is to have a server which can be used to virus scan the network (using smbfs) from a server which is immune to Win32 viruses. This sort of angle gets your foot in the door. ___________________________________________ Jeremiah Gowdy IT Manager - Senior Network Administrator Sherline Products Inc 3235 Executive Ridge Vista CA 92083-8527 IT Dept: 760-727-9492 Sales: 1-800-541-0735 International: (760) 727-5857 Fax: (760) 727-7857 ___________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Grigor" <p_grigor@yahoo.com> To: <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:59 AM Subject: Re: Prevalence of FreeBSD and UNIX among servers > I certainly understand Jeremiah's points when it comes to _client_ type > software...I do my editing using EditPlus on Windows...however the > point of the original thread (I think) was pointed towards the *server* > market. Even though Windows development tools are "easy to use", they > still lack the elegance and reliability of Unix (ie BSD) development > tools. There is a certain uncomfortability a developer has when > developing for Windows...you sometimes just don't know what's going on > behind the scenes...and have no way of finding out. Plus the operating > system's design itself is inferior to Unix-type OS's. > > I wouldn't ever use anything by BSD for any web or ftp serving...and > very quickly the open souce databases are catching up. The old saw is > sad but true...Windows measures uptime in days; Unix measures uptime in > years. > > Peter > <^_^> > > --- Jeremiah Gowdy <jeremiah@sherline.com> wrote: > > > the next few years. Notice that quality wasn't mentioned - they > > are > > > good enough for most people to resist changing. > > > > I hate to throw a pitch for the other team, but I evaluate all of my > > software equally no matter who produces it. Microsoft Office XP and > > Microsoft Visual Studio/Visual C++ 6.0 are more than good enough. > > They are > > excellent products. I've not seen one product comparable to either > > one. > > Star Office is primative compared to Microsoft Office XP, and the > > only > > development environments which even begin to compete with Visual > > Studio are > > also for the Win32 platform. I've seen Borland/Inprise/whoever's > > offering. > > It's about as impressive as Borland Builder, which is to say, not > > very. > > > > Some people don't seem to understand that it's a good thing that > > Microsoft > > doesn't embrace the open-source platforms, because even with all the > > (sometimes senseless) Microsoft hating, if they offered Internet > > Explorer, > > Office XP, and Visual Studio for FreeBSD and Linux, almost EVERYONE > > would > > use them. Most of the people who hated Microsoft would be lying > > through > > their teeth saying they weren't. > > > > My point is simply that people can sit an knock on a Microsoft > > product for > > having bugs and vulnerabilities, and that's fine. But Microsoft has > > better > > products in many of the important catagories. > > > > I would kill to be able to develop, compile, and execute my FreeBSD > > programs > > under Visual Studio. I already do when I'm making it portable. > > > > I'm all for the free software jihad. Consider me a card carrying > > member. > > But I try to look at these things realisticly. Saying Linux or > > FreeBSD is > > going to crush Windows any time soon, would be like the people who > > two or > > three years ago claimed that cable modems were going to put AOL out > > of > > business. > > > > The average user doesn't care about execution speed, the cost of > > upgrading > > their computer, Microsoft business tactics, free software, open > > source, > > security vulnerabilities, or anything along those lines. What they > > care > > about is ease of use, corporate support, compatibility, and > > productivity. > > Until the open source movement capture the hearts of the masses by > > meeting > > the needs _they_ think are important, significant inroads will not be > > made > > into Microsoft's market share. And the key is that with Microsoft > > computers > > dominating the desktop, most ignorant companies will avoid a > > heterogeneous > > setup. I know, I make my living setting FreeBSD Server/Windows 2000 > > Desktop > > networks. It takes a long time to break the ice. > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________ > > Jeremiah Gowdy > > > > IT Manager - Senior Network Administrator > > > > Sherline Products Inc > > 3235 Executive Ridge > > Vista CA 92083-8527 > > > > IT Dept: 760-727-9492 > > Sales: 1-800-541-0735 > > International: (760) 727-5857 > > Fax: (760) 727-7857 > > ___________________________________________ > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Brian Raynes" <brian_raynes@dnr.state.ak.us> > > To: "Anthony Atkielski" <anthony@freebie.atkielski.com> > > Cc: <freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2001 9:13 AM > > Subject: Re: Prevalence of FreeBSD and UNIX among servers > > > > > > > Anthony Atkielski wrote: > > > > > > > > According to an article in BusinessWeek: > > > > > > > > http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/01_50/b3761094.htm > > > > > > > > Non-Linux versions of UNIX are expected to slip from 14% of the > > server > > market to 10% next year, and Linux is expected to grow from > > > > 27% to 32%. Is this really true? This would imply that > > organizations > > are actively junking UNIX systems such as FreeBSD to go to > > > > Linux, which I find extremely hard to believe (I can't think of > > any > > reason why anyone would want to junk any xxxBSD to install > > > > Linux, which seems like a step backwards). Anyone know where > > these > > figures are coming from, or how realistic they are? > > > > > > From other articles on these numbers, I believe that the trend is > > to > > > dump Solaris on Sun Microsystems machines for Linux on cheaper > > Intel > > > machines. I believe this is a cost issue - virtually free, with > > little > > > administrative cost difference is tough to compete with. Some > > people > > > also tend to lump the xBSD systems under the Linux numbers, because > > both > > > are free vs. the proprietary Unixes. There also seems to be a > > trend for > > > the owners of some of the proprietary Unixes to switch their > > emphasis to > > > Linux - maybe to reduce development and maintenance costs? That > > might > > > explain some of these numbers, too. > > > > > > I think that the increase in Windows is due to people tired of > > betting > > > against MS. I am recently converted to the xBSD and even Linux > > camp, > > > due to cost reasons and a little by quality and geek appeal. I was > > > hearing my fellow Comp. Science students predicting Unix would > > crush > > > Microsoft back in 1988, when Windows 3.0 was in beta testing. > > Nearly 14 > > > years of harsh reality can eventually persuade people that things > > don't > > > always turn out in the way we think they should. Back then, I had > > > difficulty making my peers understand why people would stick to DOS > > over > > > Unix, just to have Wordperfect and Lotus 123. Unix was also > > incredibly > > > more expensive than DOS or Windows. Now that everyone seems to get > > > that, Unix finally has quality office productivity apps, but MS has > > > meanwhile attained a certain air of invulnerability. Now, I'm > > > predicting their aggressive anti-customer license control policies, > > > along with outrageous pricing for applications with functionality > > that > > > can mostly be duplicated for free will serve to bite them very hard > > in > > > > > > Brian Raynes > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > > ===== > > --------------------------------- > Peter Grigor > email: > p_grigor@yahoo.com > > web site: > http://www.alerx.com:8000/peter > > **Do NOT look directly into LASER with remaining eye** > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Buy the perfect holiday gifts at Yahoo! Shopping. > http://shopping.yahoo.com > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-advocacy" in the body of the message
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