From owner-freebsd-questions Tue Aug 6 5:17:45 2002 Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.FreeBSD.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7992937B400; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 05:17:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from janeway.vonbek.dhs.org (bgm-24-24-79-198.stny.rr.com [24.24.79.198]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B96F243E42; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 05:17:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from syborg@stny.rr.com) Received: by janeway.vonbek.dhs.org (Postfix, from userid 507) id 6453A4FC89; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by janeway.vonbek.dhs.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E6B14A0D; Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:17:46 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:17:46 -0400 (EDT) From: John Bleichert X-X-Sender: syborg@janeway.vonbek.dhs.org Reply-To: John Bleichert To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey Cc: Brian Astill , Subject: Re: Is simplicity despised? WAS: What do we need in a FreeBSD desktop? In-Reply-To: <20020806044044.GA45553@wantadilla.lemis.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk List-ID: List-Archive: (Web Archive) List-Help: (List Instructions) List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG Nobody will ever convince me there's a better wm-agnostic editor than nedit for a new user. Also, does anybody really want the FreeBSD installer changed? Maybe the addition of an 'instant-workstation' install would be ok, but in my IMHO /stand/sysinstall is the best installer out there. Installers should only be *so* easy. Hobbyists who want to try out new things should be willing to break it a few times. People who want butt-simple installs should just ask somebody else to do it. Sorry, I know I'll probably get flamed for that, but the thought of a click-through win9x install for Unix makes me ill. The linux installers are just this side of nasuea ... On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:10:44 +0930 > From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey > To: Brian Astill > Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Is simplicity despised? WAS: What do we need in a FreeBSD > desktop? > > On Tuesday, 6 August 2002 at 13:01:53 +0930, Brian Astill wrote: > > I was intellectually offended by the response to my suggestion that there is > > a use for a simple instrument such as the text editor le. > > Apparently if it isn't comprehensive and complicated it is to be despised as > > a "toy". > > Does that mean that users of FreeBSD are to become elitist intellectual > > snobs, discarding on principle that which is easy to use and understand? > > There is a precept that I embrace, called > > KEEP IT SIMPLE - STUPID! > > > > Shouldn't we all use the simplest and easiest method to accomplish a task, > > not deliberately choose the complex "over-kill" alternative? > > If there's one thing that you need to learn early on, it's a good > editor. I did install le just to see what it was like. I think the > average user would find it harder to use than Emacs. > > The reason for this is simple: people don't read documentation. Emacs > gives you the documentation where you need it, in the menus. le may > do so, but if it does, it's hiding it well. Take a look at the first > two attachments, showing the top and the bottom of the window which it > displays once you give it a file name. There's nothing at the top, > and the bottom, apart from being almost illegible, gives little useful > information. I certainly don't know how to use it without finding the > man page. It took me some experimentation to find out how to stop the > program. > > By contrast, look at the Emacs window in which I'm writing this reply > (third and fourth attachments). I'd show the pull-down help window if > I could; try it for yourself. > > That's only the start, of course. To reply to the mail message, I > pass the message to an already running emacs via emacsclient. I could > write the reply with le as well, but how do I adjust the lines so that > they're not too long or too short? Now's the time to read the man > page, which tells me that I can turn off the colours with the -b flag, > but it doesn't seem to have anything beyond basic editing capability. > By contrast, Emacs does automatic line breaking for me, and if I have > rearranged the text, a single keystroke reformats the paragraph. Why > should I ever want to use le? > > Greg > -- > When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. > If you don't, I may ignore the reply. > For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > /* * John Bleichert * syborg@stny.rr.com * http://vonbek.dhs.org/latest.jpg */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message