Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 22:53:38 -0500 From: Brandon Potter <gbpotter@mac.com> To: grog@FreeBSD.ORG (Greg Lehey) Cc: FreeBSD-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: How to get best results from FreeBSD-questions Message-ID: <200109250354.UAA24777@smtpout.mac.com> In-Reply-To: <20010922000203.E219737B408@hub.freebsd.org>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
On Friday, September 21, 2001, at 07:02 PM, Greg Lehey wrote: > How to get the best results from FreeBSD questions. > =================================================== > > Last update 3 September 1999 > > This is a regular posting to the FreeBSD questions mailing list. If > you got it in answer to a message you sent, it means that the sender > thinks that at least one of the following things was wrong with your > message: > > - You left out a subject line, or the subject line was not appropriate. > - You formatted it in such a way that it was difficult to read. > - You asked more than one unrelated question in one message. > - You sent out a message with an incorrect date, time or time zone. > - You sent out the same message more than once. > - You sent an 'unsubscribe' message to FreeBSD-questions. > > If you have done any of these things, there is a good chance that you > will get more than one copy of this message from different people. > Read on, and your next message will be more successful. > > This document is also available on the web at > http://www.lemis.com/questions.html. > > ===================================================================== > > Contents: > > I: Introduction > II: How to unsubscribe from FreeBSD-questions > III: Should I ask -questions or -hackers? > IV: How to submit a question to FreeBSD-questions > V: How to answer a question to FreeBSD-questions > > I: Introduction > =============== > > This is a regular posting aimed to help both those seeking advice from > FreeBSD-questions (the "newcomers"), and also those who answer the > questions (the "hackers"). > > Note that the term "hacker" has nothing to do with breaking > into other people's computers. The correct term for the latter > activity is "cracker", but the popular press hasn't found out > yet. The FreeBSD hackers disapprove strongly of cracking > security, and have nothing to do with it. > > In the past, there has been some friction which stems from the > different viewpoints of the two groups. The newcomers accused the > hackers of being arrogant, stuck-up, and unhelpful, while the hackers > accused the newcomers of being stupid, unable to read plain English, > and expecting everything to be handed to them on a silver platter. Of > course, there's an element of truth in both these claims, but for the > most part these viewpoints come from a sense of frustration. > > In this document, I'd like to do something to relieve this frustration > and help everybody get better results from FreeBSD-questions. In the > following section, I recommend how to submit a question; after that, > we'll look at how to answer one. > > II: How to unsubscribe from FreeBSD-questions > ============================================== > > When you subscribed to FreeBSD-questions, you got a welcome message > from Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG. In this message, amongst other things, it > told you how to unsubscribe. Here's a typical message: > > Welcome to the freebsd-questions mailing list! > > If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list, > you can send mail to "Majordomo@FreeBSD.ORG" with the following > command > in the body of your email message: > > unsubscribe freebsd-questions Greg Lehey <grog@lemis.de> > > Here's the general information for the list you've > subscribed to, in case you don't already have it: > > FREEBSD-QUESTIONS User questions > This is the mailing list for questions about FreeBSD. You should not > send "how to" questions to the technical lists unless you consider the > question to be pretty technical. > > Normally, unsubscribing is even simpler than the message suggests: you > don't need to specify your mail ID unless it is different from the one > which you specified when you subscribed. > > If Majordomo replies and tells you (incorrectly) that you're not on > the list, this may mean one of two things: > > 1. You have changed your mail ID since you subscribed. That's where > keeping the original message from majordomo comes in handy. For > example, the sample message above shows my mail ID as > grog@lemis.de. Since then, I have changed it to > grog@lemis.com. If I were to try to remove grog@lemis.com from > the list, it would fail: I would have to specify the name with > which I joined. > > 2. You're subscribed to a mailing list which is subscribed to > FreeBSD-questions. If that's the case, you'll have to figure out > which one it is and get your name taken off that one. If you're > not sure which one it might be, check the headers of the > messages you receive from freebsd-questions: maybe there's a > clue there. > > If you've done all this, and you still can't figure out what's going > on, send a message to Postmaster@FreeBSD.org, and he will sort things > out for you. Don't send a message to FreeBSD-questions: they can't > help you. > > III: Should I ask -questions, -newbies or -hackers? > =================================================== > > Two mailing lists handle general questions about FreeBSD, > FreeBSD-questions and FreeBSD-hackers. In addition, the > FreeBSD-newbies list caters specifically for people who are new to > FreeBSD and may be having trouble getting used to the environment. In > some cases, it's not really clear which group you should ask. The > following criteria should help for 99% of all questions, however: > > If the question is of a general nature, first check whether this > isn't a Frequently Asked Question (FAQ). There's a list of these > questions at http://www.freebsd.org/FAQ/FAQ.html, and also on > your own system (once you've installed it) at > /usr/share/doc/FAQ/FAQ.html. Check there, and if you don't find > an answer, ask FreeBSD-questions. Examples might be questions > about installing FreeBSD or the use of a particular UNIX utility. > > If you think the question relates to a bug, but you're not sure, > or you don't know how to look for it, send the message to > FreeBSD-questions. > > If the question relates to a bug, and you're almost sure that > it's a bug (for example, you can pinpoint the place in the code > where it happens, and you maybe have a fix), then send the > message to FreeBSD-hackers. You should also enter a problem > report with the send-pr utility. > > If the question relates to enhancements to FreeBSD, and you can > make suggestions about how to implement them, then send the > message to FreeBSD-hackers. > > If the question is of particularly technical nature, such as > implementation details or suggestions for improvements, then send > the message to FreeBSD-hackers. > > If you're new to FreeBSD, and the message is about your own > relationship to FreeBSD, send the message to FreeBSD-newbies. > > There are also a number of other specialized mailing lists, for > example FreeBSD-isp, which caters to the interests of ISPs (Internet > Service Providers) who run FreeBSD. If you happen to be an ISP, this > doesn't mean you should automatically send your questions to > FreeBSD-isp. The criteria above still apply, and it's in your > interest to stick to them, since you're more likely to get good > results that way. > > IV: How to submit a question > ============================= > > When submitting a question to FreeBSD-questions, consider the > following points: > > 1. Remember that nobody gets paid for answering a FreeBSD question. > They do it of their own free will. You can influence this free > will positively by submitting a well-formulated question > supplying as much relevant information as possible. You can > influence this free will negatively by submitting an incomplete, > illegible, or rude question. It's perfectly possible to send a > message to FreeBSD-questions and not get an answer even if you > follow these rules. It's much more possible to not get an > answer if you don't. In the rest of this document, we'll look > at how to get the most out of your question to > FreeBSD-questions. > > 2. Not everybody who answers FreeBSD questions reads every message: > they look at the subject line and decide whether it interests > them. Clearly, it's in your interest to specify a subject. > ``FreeBSD problem'' or ``Help'' aren't enough. If you provide > no subject at all, many people won't bother reading it. If your > subject isn't specific enough, the people who can answer it may > not read it. > > 3. Format your message so that it is legible, and PLEASE DON'T > SHOUT!!!!!. We appreciate that a lot of people don't speak > English as their first language, and we try to make allowances > for that, but it's really painful to try to read a message > written full of typos or without any line breaks. A lot of > badly formatted messages come from bad mailers or badly > configured mailers. The following mailers are known to send out > badly formatted messages without you finding out about them: > > Eudora > exmh > Microsoft Exchange > Microsoft Internet Mail > Microsoft Outlook > Netscape > > As you can see, the mailers in the Microsoft world are frequent > offenders. If at all possible, use a UNIX mailer. If you must > use a mailer under Microsoft environments, make sure it is set > up correctly. Try not to use MIME: a lot of people use mailers > which don't get on very well with MIME. > > For further information on this subject, check out > http://www.lemis.com/email.html. > > 4. Make sure your time and time zone are set correctly. This may > seem a little silly, since your message still gets there, but > many of the people you are trying to reach get several hundred > messages a day. They frequently sort the incoming messages by > subject and by date, and if your message doesn't come before the > first answer, they may assume they missed it and not bother to > look. > > 5. Don't include unrelated questions in the same message. Firstly, > a long message tends to scare people off, and secondly, it's > more difficult to get all the people who can answer all the > questions to read the message. > > 6. Specify as much information as possible. This is a difficult > area, and we need to expand on what information you need to > submit, but here's a start: > > If you get error messages, don't say ``I get error > messages'', say (for example) ``I get the error message 'No > route to host'''. > > If your system panics, don't say ``My system panicked'', say > (for example) ``my system panicked with the message 'free > vnode isn't'''. > > If you have difficulty installing FreeBSD, please tell us > what hardware you have. In particular, it's important to > know the IRQs and I/O addresses of the boards installed in > your machine. > > If you have difficulty getting PPP to run, describe the > configuration. Which version of PPP do you use? What kind of > authentication do you have? Do you have a static or dynamic > IP address? What kind of messages do you get in the log file? > > 7. If you don't get an answer immediately, or if you don't even see > your own message appear on the list immediately, don't resend > the message. Wait at least 24 hours. The FreeBSD mailer > offloads messages to a number of subordinate mailers around the > world, and sometimes it can take several hours for the mail to > get through. And once it gets through, the one person who might > know the answer will probably just have gone to bed in his part > of the world. > > 8. If you do all this, and you still don't get an answer, there > could be other reasons. For example, the problem is so > complicated that nobody knows the answer, or the person who does > know the answer was offline. If you don't get an answer after, > say, a week, it might help to re-send the message. If you don't > get an answer to your second message, though, you're probably > not going to get one from this forum. Resending the same > message again and again will only make you unpopular. > > To summarize, let's assume you know the answer to the following > question (yes, it's the same one in each case :-). You choose which of > these two questions you would be more prepared to answer: > > > Message 1: > Subject: (none) > > I just can't get hits damn silly FereBSD system to workd, and Im really > good at this tsuff, but I have never seen anythign sho difficult to > install, it jst wont work whatever I try so why don't y9ou guys tell me > what I doing wrong. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message 2: > Subject: Problems installing FreeBSD > > I've just got the FreeBSD 2.1.5 CD-ROM from Walnut Creek, and I'm > having a lot of difficulty installing it. I have a 66 MHz 486 with 16 > MB of memory and an Adaptec 1540A SCSI board, a 1.2GB Quantum Fireball > disk and a Toshiba 3501XA CD-ROM drive. The installation works just > fine, but when I try to reboot the system, I get the message "Missing > Operating System". > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > V: How to follow up to a question > ================================= > > Often you will want to send in additional information to a question > you have already sent. The best way to do this is to reply to your > original message. This has three advantages: > > 1. You include the original message text, so people will know what > you're talking about. Don't forget to trim unnecessary text out, > though. > > 2. The text in the subject line stays the same (you did remember to > put one in, didn't you?). Many mailers will sort messages by > subject. This helps group messages together. > > 3. The message reference numbers in the header will refer to the > previous message. Some mailers, such as mutt, can thread messages, > showing the exact relationships between the messages. > > VI: How to answer a question > ============================ > > Before you answer a question to FreeBSD-questions, consider: > > 1. A lot of the points on submitting questions also apply to > answering questions. Read them. > > 2. Has somebody already answered the question? The easiest way to > check this is to sort your incoming mail by subject: then > (hopefully) you'll see the question followed by any answers, all > together. > > If somebody has already answered it, it doesn't automatically mean > that you shouldn't send another answer. But it makes sense to > read all the other answers first. > > 3. Do you have something to contribute beyond what has already been > said? In general, "Yeah, me too" answers don't help much, > although there are exceptions, like when somebody is describing a > problem he's having, and he doesn't know whether it's his fault or > whether there's something wrong with the hardware or software. If > you do send a "me too" answer, you should also include any further > relevant information. > > 4. Are you sure you understand the question? Very frequently, the > person who asks the question is confused or doesn't express > himself very well. Even with the best understanding of the system, > it's easy to send a reply which doesn't answer the question. This > doesn't help: you'll leave the person who submitted the question > more frustrated or confused than ever. If nobody else answers, and > you're not too sure either, you can always ask for more > information. > > 5. Are you sure your answer is correct? If not, wait a day or so. > If nobody else comes up with a better answer, you can still reply > and say, for example, "I don't know if this is correct, but since > nobody else has replied, why don't you try replacing your ATAPI > CD-ROM with a frog?". > > 6. Unless there's a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender > and to FreeBSD-questions. Many people on the FreeBSD-questions > are "lurkers": they learn by reading messages sent and replied to > by others. If you take a message which is of general interest off > the list, you're depriving these people of their information. Be > careful with group replies; lots of people send messages with > hundreds of CCs. If this is the case, be sure to trim the Cc: > lines appropriately. > > 7. Include relevant text from the original message. Trim it to the > minimum, but don't overdo it. It should still be possible for > somebody who didn't read the original message to understand what > you're talking about. > > 8. Use some technique to identify which text came from the original > message, and which text you add. I personally find that prepending > ``> '' to the original message works best. Leaving white space > after the ``> '' and leave empty lines between your text and the > original text both make the result more readable. > > 9. Put your response in the correct place (after the text to which it > replies). It's very difficult to read a thread of responses where > each reply comes before the text to which it replies. > > 10. Most mailers change the subject line on a reply by prepending a > text such as ``Re: ''. If your mailer doesn't do it > automatically, you should do it manually. > > 11. If the submitter didn't abide by format conventions (lines too > long, inappropriate subject line), please fix it. In the case of > an incorrect subject line (such as ``HELP!!??''), change the > subject line to (say) ``Re: Difficulties with sync PPP (was: > HELP!!??)''. That way other people trying to follow the thread > will have less difficulty following it. > > In such cases, it's appropriate to say what you did and why you > did it, but try not to be rude. If you find you can't answer > without being rude, don't answer. > > If you just want to reply to a message because of its bad format, > just reply to the submitter, not to the list. You can just send > him this message in reply, if you like. > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?200109250354.UAA24777>