From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sat Jul 25 06:37:35 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB17B3A1024 for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:37:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) Received: from admin.sibptus.ru (admin.sibptus.ru [IPv6:2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4BDGb30knwz3YLL for ; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:37:34 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from vas@sibptus.ru) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sibptus.ru; s=20181118; h=In-Reply-To:Message-ID:Subject:To:From:Date; bh=xJ0af1nHJYntaiySOC0WWdthCKk3jipsf7CGemOxSqI=; b=kifZ2kw5WVMRIP8BPM+GeJSEhE 4zuGlhGMYlanv3dJz024sPjrB88PAv/qlR41cueme5KhJ84OjhqV5SXdaG+9hXDGxbQLj4VKcEDiF F3atir5AqiH8QmFgWsZLp8HZ/Aib7JfguV2jamHVhQJMjWL0CZLWTsIWNY+sTxFq4XIU=; Received: from vas by admin.sibptus.ru with local (Exim 4.94 (FreeBSD)) (envelope-from ) id 1jzDoL-000OTv-B0 for freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:37:33 +0700 Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 13:37:33 +0700 From: Victor Sudakov To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Technological advantages over Linux Message-ID: <20200725063733.GE92589@admin.sibptus.ru> References: <20200214121620.GA80657@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200724032840.GA61047@admin.sibptus.ru> <20200724122127.08ea76b6881fd483dc212287@sohara.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="hoZxPH4CaxYzWscb" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200724122127.08ea76b6881fd483dc212287@sohara.org> X-PGP-Key: http://admin.sibptus.ru/~vas/ X-PGP-Fingerprint: 10E3 1171 1273 E007 C2E9 3532 0DA4 F259 9B5E C634 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4BDGb30knwz3YLL X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=sibptus.ru header.s=20181118 header.b=kifZ2kw5; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=sibptus.ru; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of vas@sibptus.ru designates 2001:19f0:5001:21dc::10 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=vas@sibptus.ru X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.05 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.07)[-1.071]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[sibptus.ru:s=20181118]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+mx:c]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.20)[multipart/signed,text/plain]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.01)[-1.013]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[sibptus.ru:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[sibptus.ru,none]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.87)[-0.866]; SIGNED_PGP(-2.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:20473, ipnet:2001:19f0:5000::/38, country:US]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2020 06:37:35 -0000 --hoZxPH4CaxYzWscb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Steve O'Hara-Smith wrote: >=20 > > Victor Sudakov wrote: >=20 > > 1. Debian can run several versions of PHP, PostgreSQL and some other > > software simultaneously (without manual efforts with jails, chroots >=20 > Hmmm ... FreeBSD supports multiple versions of Python, what's wrong with PHP? Is it some principled position, or just lack of resources or money to implement? >=20 > > 3. FreeBSD lacks a native docker (what prevents from fixing >=20 > Isn't the whole point of docker to package applications in > containers so that (among other simplifications) there was no need to > support multiple versions of services in the same environment. >=20 > One service, one container works just as well in jails as in > docker,=20 We can't compare docker and jails like that. Jails is just a process isolation technology. Docker is a ready product (based on the Linux equivalents of jails, mount_unionfs etc). When iocage or pot are mature enough (hopefully), we well be able to compare docker vs iocage, and this would be a fair comparison. > granted it's not as easy as writing a yaml file and watching a > poorly understood swarm of thousands of containers spring to life and > provide a load-balanced service, but it isn't hard especially with iocage > templates. Glad you understand that. Many people touting jail don't realize it. >=20 > Personally I always run services in single service jails and have > done for a lot longer than docker has existed.=20 It could be great if FreeBSD provided an infrastructure for this. If for example, for every service XXX there existed a XXX_enable=3D"YES" XXX_jailed=3D"jail1" That would be a huge advantage. >=20 > I have systems which have been steadily upgraded from 8. to > 12.1 with only a single (easily corrected) upgrade glitch (the drm_kmod > issue) and not a single byte of data lost. Standard advice in Linux world > regarding major version upgrades seems to be "Don't do it and if you do > expect breakage". That is a *major* technological advantage. I fully agree with you here, especially taking into account that Linuxes lack the notion of the base system and boot environments. --=20 Victor Sudakov, VAS4-RIPE, VAS47-RIPN 2:5005/49@fidonet http://vas.tomsk.ru/ --hoZxPH4CaxYzWscb Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJfG9MtAAoJEA2k8lmbXsY0WRoH/2gd6ybd2t6SnVWTkbeGKWy2 UlcwbupRxEMbK5zX4hrB+dkqEGQ/Ge3dhQmRnZDLdIJ+ZgspsNWr1lIDjkbpmSJa sa/FYWNmdarh4DS7NJfr4TFHE9vwyw0qmb/wjmDIwyaVHefVHGWBPCH0Z6hGsyU9 iq2lW9JoL9pLEr8PC/RzCHcINhYeYlISD1UDD5+TuGc3fHALDpFBZ1fXEUxAB1zU 0XSadoTNyrooFr58dZg3T9iy7xR9pVf2MvZrUP2usu7Ik45/qcrxLi4+b/AGe0s5 ofztRbBYk/USQ3r6pOv6FkYAKrucCCqCIHf/Cwxj0dhenNXF9hH2+ia6Q3Rm9dQ= =Q510 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --hoZxPH4CaxYzWscb--