From owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Sep 11 00:31:33 2003 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3384B16A4BF; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:31:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net (stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net [207.217.120.188]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72DA743FEA; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:31:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from tlambert2@mindspring.com) Received: from user-2ivfj4m.dialup.mindspring.com ([165.247.204.150] helo=mindspring.com) by stork.mail.pas.earthlink.net with asmtp (SSLv3:RC4-MD5:128) (Exim 3.33 #1) id 19xLvP-000142-00; Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:31:32 -0700 Message-ID: <3F602490.CDD98F0D@mindspring.com> Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 00:30:24 -0700 From: Terry Lambert X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Doug Barton References: <20030908105911.GA152151@CIS.FU-Berlin.DE> <20030910164901.T35663@12-234-22-23.pyvrag.nggov.pbz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ELNK-Trace: b1a02af9316fbb217a47c185c03b154d40683398e744b8a458cdcacdada6c129ff65220fda2b2c72350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c350badd9bab72f9c cc: Peter Jeremy cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org cc: Philipp Grau Subject: Re: new rc system X-BeenThere: freebsd-current@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussions about the use of FreeBSD-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 07:31:33 -0000 Doug Barton wrote: > ntpd[ate] is a very difficult thing to order, because a lot of things > need/want accurate time before they start, and yet by definition, ntp is > a network protocol so it has a lot of other dependencies before it can > even start. A lot of the things that ntp depends on (like network) want > logging before they start, but syslog wants accurate time before IT > starts... and we spiral back in time infinitely. Technically, syslog only has a soft dependency on the current time, since the time is looked up each event, rather than being cached. So it has a dependency, but it's not one that prevent syslog from running or providing some minimal/degraded service level. > > This is a known shortcoming in the new rc system. Luke Mewburn > > commented on it in a talk recently but does not yet have a > > satisfactory solution. > > Can you describe in more detail what you mean by "this is a known > shortcoming?" I believe he means the distinction between "soft" ("would like") vs. "hard" ("absolutely cannot run if not present") dependencies. The new rc system fails to make such distinctions: it doesn't have a high enough granularity to its dependency classification. -- Terry