From owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG  Mon Jun 11 17:15:55 2012
Return-Path: <owner-freebsd-security@FreeBSD.ORG>
Delivered-To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34])
	by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CBEB106564A
	for <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>;
	Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:15:55 +0000 (UTC)
	(envelope-from rwmaillists@googlemail.com)
Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54])
	by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F218FC16
	for <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>;
	Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:15:54 +0000 (UTC)
Received: by eeke49 with SMTP id e49so2225188eek.13
	for <freebsd-security@freebsd.org>;
	Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:15:54 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed;
	d=googlemail.com; s=20120113;
	h=date:from:to:subject:message-id:in-reply-to:references:x-mailer
	:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding;
	bh=Noq6Wz2Vfe8W/jMwRco/P0mis/DweTHw4C71YfNy/i8=;
	b=h5LOI+Zq7N/w68aapu6qzFZBLybnnAM2fZ7dVHjO6jL8a/tep18TI1KFFky3AhiQ6E
	4hzrwqzn48KYALIMxN/X8Gmww//wEC37MvUEVwNyGZ2lkgxgKN7UVfgaUWjXYTc3CS3J
	se8B0TXf4OUeWhk5/UDRwJKF+FVVfeC+PgpBokHCJMumk/RE+yTeZcInRprm/HbqM0TQ
	7K0JNY/OcPbIe2RR3DqFLVhFTx8IVORLxWcjGBCAh6D+jc73OKXxjJM2dvdyKYB1g9CR
	N+3Tp+0FZeUzlEbjiGJfGD49b7rNk5g0Y62/mXIt9TssWV8xsPXfvOQLdDrdrFDGJteS
	SmOw==
Received: by 10.14.45.12 with SMTP id o12mr2088108eeb.86.1339434953939;
	Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:15:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from gumby.homeunix.com (87-194-105-247.bethere.co.uk.
	[87.194.105.247])
	by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id u16sm18732912eeb.16.2012.06.11.10.15.51
	(version=SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Mon, 11 Jun 2012 10:15:52 -0700 (PDT)
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 18:15:50 +0100
From: RW <rwmaillists@googlemail.com>
To: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
Message-ID: <20120611181550.7a42ad66@gumby.homeunix.com>
In-Reply-To: <734419687.20120611144402@serebryakov.spb.ru>
References: <86r4tqotjo.fsf@ds4.des.no>
	<6E26E03B-8D1D-44D3-B94E-0552BE5CA894@FreeBSD.org>
	<734419687.20120611144402@serebryakov.spb.ru>
X-Mailer: Claws Mail 3.8.0 (GTK+ 2.24.6; amd64-portbld-freebsd8.3)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1251
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Subject: Re: Default password hash
X-BeenThere: freebsd-security@freebsd.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Security issues \[members-only posting\]"
	<freebsd-security.freebsd.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security>, 
	<mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-security>
List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-security@freebsd.org>
List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-security>, 
	<mailto:freebsd-security-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2012 17:15:55 -0000

On Mon, 11 Jun 2012 14:44:02 +0400
Lev Serebryakov wrote:

> Hello, Simon.
> You wrote 10 èþíÿ 2012 ã., 14:02:50:
> 
> SLBN> Has anyone looked at how long the SHA512 password hashing
> SLBN> actually takes on modern computers?
>  Modern  computers  are  not what should you afraid. Modern GPUs are.
> And they are incredibly fast in calculation of MD5, SHA-1 and SHA-2.
> 
>  Modern key-derivation schemes must be RAM-heavy, not CPU-heavy.

They should be both, the point of scrypt is to optimize for normal
ratios of cpu power to memory.

>  And   I   don't   understand,   why  should  we  use  our  home-grown
> "strengthening" algorithms instead of "standard" choices: PBKDF2[1],
> bcrypt[2] and (my favorite) scrypt[3].

We already have bcrypt, it's called blowfish. 

I think what's needed is a self-tuning algorithm that tracks CPU time.
IMO geli's PKCS #5 implementation is obsolete because it's based on core
time.