Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:29:11 -0400 (EDT) From: John Bleichert <syborg@stny.rr.com> To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Is simplicity despised? WAS: What do we need in a FreeBSD desktop? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0208060825390.6505-100000@janeway.vonbek.dhs.org> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0208060814060.6505-100000@janeway.vonbek.dhs.org>
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This was meant more as kudos and accolades to the designer(s) of /stand/sysinstall, not a rant about dumbing down the installer. Sorry about that. Bringing in new users is always a good thing, I'm just not convinced ramping down the installer is the way to do that. Iff the new user has compliant hardware (and has checked to see) then the 'instant-workstation' option is an excellent idea. I guess you'd still need to ask for passwords, IP info ... Ah, my first cup of coffee ... JB On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, John Bleichert wrote: > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 08:17:46 -0400 (EDT) > From: John Bleichert <syborg@stny.rr.com> > To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.ORG> > Cc: Brian Astill <bastill@sa.apana.org.au>, questions@FreeBSD.ORG > Subject: Re: Is simplicity despised? WAS: What do we need in a FreeBSD > desktop? > > > Nobody will ever convince me there's a better wm-agnostic editor than > nedit for a new user. > > Also, does anybody really want the FreeBSD installer changed? Maybe the > addition of an 'instant-workstation' install would be ok, but in my IMHO > /stand/sysinstall is the best installer out there. > > Installers should only be *so* easy. Hobbyists who want to try out new > things should be willing to break it a few times. People who want > butt-simple installs should just ask somebody else to do it. > > Sorry, I know I'll probably get flamed for that, but the thought of a > click-through win9x install for Unix makes me ill. The linux installers > are just this side of nasuea ... > > On Tue, 6 Aug 2002, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote: > > > Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 14:10:44 +0930 > > From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog@FreeBSD.ORG> > > To: Brian Astill <bastill@sa.apana.org.au> > > Cc: questions@FreeBSD.ORG > > Subject: Re: Is simplicity despised? WAS: What do we need in a FreeBSD > > desktop? > > > > On Tuesday, 6 August 2002 at 13:01:53 +0930, Brian Astill wrote: > > > I was intellectually offended by the response to my suggestion that there is > > > a use for a simple instrument such as the text editor le. > > > Apparently if it isn't comprehensive and complicated it is to be despised as > > > a "toy". > > > Does that mean that users of FreeBSD are to become elitist intellectual > > > snobs, discarding on principle that which is easy to use and understand? > > > There is a precept that I embrace, called > > > KEEP IT SIMPLE - STUPID! > > > > > > Shouldn't we all use the simplest and easiest method to accomplish a task, > > > not deliberately choose the complex "over-kill" alternative? > > > > If there's one thing that you need to learn early on, it's a good > > editor. I did install le just to see what it was like. I think the > > average user would find it harder to use than Emacs. > > > > The reason for this is simple: people don't read documentation. Emacs > > gives you the documentation where you need it, in the menus. le may > > do so, but if it does, it's hiding it well. Take a look at the first > > two attachments, showing the top and the bottom of the window which it > > displays once you give it a file name. There's nothing at the top, > > and the bottom, apart from being almost illegible, gives little useful > > information. I certainly don't know how to use it without finding the > > man page. It took me some experimentation to find out how to stop the > > program. > > > > By contrast, look at the Emacs window in which I'm writing this reply > > (third and fourth attachments). I'd show the pull-down help window if > > I could; try it for yourself. > > > > That's only the start, of course. To reply to the mail message, I > > pass the message to an already running emacs via emacsclient. I could > > write the reply with le as well, but how do I adjust the lines so that > > they're not too long or too short? Now's the time to read the man > > page, which tells me that I can turn off the colours with the -b flag, > > but it doesn't seem to have anything beyond basic editing capability. > > By contrast, Emacs does automatic line breaking for me, and if I have > > rearranged the text, a single keystroke reformats the paragraph. Why > > should I ever want to use le? > > > > Greg > > -- > > When replying to this message, please copy the original recipients. > > If you don't, I may ignore the reply. > > For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/questions.html > > See complete headers for address and phone numbers > > > > /* > * John Bleichert > * syborg@stny.rr.com > * http://vonbek.dhs.org/latest.jpg > */ > > > To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org > with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message > /* * John Bleichert * syborg@stny.rr.com * http://vonbek.dhs.org/latest.jpg */ To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-questions" in the body of the message
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