Date: Sun, 26 Jan 2014 10:26:41 -0800 From: Alfred Perlstein <alfred@freebsd.org> To: freebsd-ports@freebsd.org, Aryeh Friedman <aryeh.friedman@gmail.com> Subject: Re: What is the problem with ports PR reaction delays? Message-ID: <52E55361.3000108@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <CAGBxaXnh1YTMJngZ0d7h4wcaZ4kh64jZQfAnyCqwaNCj3_Wwhg@mail.gmail.com> References: <CAHcXP%2Bf6e-t--XbQPTH1goJp_CL7P=zTj5trZVWd4YZ_EsO9gw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaX=t3e5SXoBDHnzAbx=SWbEFMJHNPQL13FnwNgKWM3gCiA@mail.gmail.com> <CAHcXP%2Bew5qt5hc9Y%2BR_njPkfhUMsDDAqNk9aYSacV4PwBmqjfw@mail.gmail.com> <CAGBxaXnXwo4JxnRdffZfdvfETfhgJNkFM-N23H1SOT0G3-oMwA@mail.gmail.com> <CAE-m3X2dQTTsbrTJg2iPT3qkfq7h9U8oGbRZXGAXH%2BJ2T4MFNw@mail.gmail.com> <CAHcXP%2BdtHPHT%2BFD8RdcqhGANBPf1Gk4N4coEpZY-eAuQE3iZtg@mail.gmail.com> <CAE-m3X2rWk-0k_yH1PK0iN_5YhvSh1UsV0VCrroJq==687X1ZQ@mail.gmail.com> <52E43A80.4030501@rawbw.com> <CAGBxaXnfb2yPZZCaf6mYzASzT13b68A8iPT6eUwUdU9W1ya_Qg@mail.gmail.com> <52E44BC1.7040404@rawbw.com> <CAGBxaXkCWAAfA%2B7x9-icTwO4Vd78EGOeh5-4eG3DUJ_gGVHT1g@mail.gmail.com> <52E46D44.6050403@freebsd.org> <52E47EF7.7040402@ohlste.in> <CAHcXP%2Bfk2T1%2BoYW45BjcimujedJJ2uE%2BS-FutGbyam2i3QRnog@mail.gmail.com> <52E55186.7020009@freebsd.org> <CAGBxaXnh1YTMJngZ0d7h4wcaZ4kh64jZQfAnyCqwaNCj3_Wwhg@mail.gmail.com>
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On 1/26/14 10:21 AM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: > just do us a favor and do not assume newer means better... I've been using newer almost exclusively for the past several years and it is better. Open your eyes, people have moved on. -Alfred > > > On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Alfred Perlstein <alfred@freebsd.org>wrote: > >> On 1/26/14 5:25 AM, Big Lebowski wrote: >> >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 26, 2014 at 4:20 AM, Jim Ohlstein <jim@ohlste.in> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> >>> On 1/25/14, 9:04 PM, Alfred Perlstein wrote: >>> >>>> On 1/25/14 3:48 PM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 25, 2014 at 6:41 PM, Yuri <yuri@rawbw.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On 01/25/2014 14:44, Aryeh Friedman wrote: >>>>>> The key seems to be that no one has time to do the stuff they really >>>>>>> want >>>>>>> to do (get new ports into the system)... to that end automating >>>>>>> everything >>>>>>> that can be automated is sure help free up comitter time so they can >>>>>>> look >>>>>>> at what is interesting >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yes. I just can't imagine any generic port tests that can't be >>>>>> automated >>>>>> and coded into the script once and for good. >>>>>> Ideal system should be like github with the added automated testing >>>>>> between pull request submission and merge. It should either fail and >>>>>> notify >>>>>> the submitter, or succeed and notify the committers. >>>>>> >>>>>> Git hup (or *ANY* remote service for that matter) is a no go IMO >>>> You just don't get it. >>>> >>>> Again, you just really, really, don't get it. >>>> >>>> You WANT a gateway to a remote service that the project does not have to >>>> handle. >>>> >>>> Why? Because then we offload the problem to another org. >>>> >>>> The FreeBSD project should be about innovation in OS design, platform >>>> and software. Ops work is bunk and just slows us down. >>>> >>>> The more we can outsource the better we'll be. (and what if that >>>> service blows up? well we move on! it's simple!) >>>> >>>> Continuing to insist that we run the services ourselves it just wasting >>>> our limited resources. Not only that but we get emotionally attached to >>>> technologies that are old, dying and dead when off the shelf stuff works >>>> just fine. >>>> >>> I've read all 60 or so messages in this thread and there really are two >>> related but distinct issues here. >>> >>> The thread title is "What is the problem with ports PR reaction delays?". >>> This has meandered into a philosophical debate about who knows what and who >>> knows squat about version control systems, whether we need to maintain >>> certain requirements, testing ports, etc. >>> >>> I like the KISS approach myself. This can be boiled down to those two >>> issues, one of which is a symptom of the other. Arguing and debating over a >>> long term solution to the OP's question does nothing to solve the problem >>> in the short to intermediate term. There are 1680 current ports related >>> PR's at this moment. >>> >>> As we all know, the committers are volunteers, mostly with real jobs and >>> real lives and they obviously cannot keep up with the current load. The >>> short to medium term solution for that is more committers. I'll add my name >>> to the list of those who are willing to step in and help to clean up the >>> mess. I'm certain that if a request went out, there would be many who are >>> more qualified than I. >>> >>> At the same time, a group of interested individuals should offer input to >>> the folks who already are looking at changing the bug reporting system away >>> from gnats - https://wiki.freebsd.org/Bugtracking/BugRelocationPlan. >>> Doing it in one fell swoop might make sense. It's "ripping off the bandaid" >>> but I'd rather do it only once myself. >>> >>> What does *not* make sense is a new port for what might be a very useful >>> tool waiting since September for someone to look at it. Arguing over git >>> and subversion et alia does nothing to fix that. As they say on the ESPN >>> NFL pregame show, "C'mon man!". >> >> I can't agree more. I can see, understand and accept reasons why we cant >> move from SVN to GitHub/Git and I certainly dont think that it would be >> solution to current problems. It seems like this is not neccessary, it wont >> happen, so I think we can end that discussion here. However, we do have all >> the tools to automate this process, so I really dont understand why not to >> do this, especially it is perfectly doable with SVN, Redports are already >> doing so, and there are people willing to work on it. >> >> >> Thanks Big Lebowski <spankthespam@gmail.com> <spankthespam@gmail.com>! >> >> I'm not sure if taking your word for it will be the be all and end all of >> progress on this issue. I do have hope, after all as Max Planck said: >> >> "A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and >> making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, >> and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." >> >> I just have my fingers cross that we are not so insular, so heels dug deep >> in the dirt, and so curmudgeonly that we drive away anyone interested in >> new technology. >> >> I mean, if we're all so firm in our beliefs there are dozens of other open >> source projects that encourage new things that people will flock to. >> >> >> -Alfred >> >> >> >
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