From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Tue May 19 03:11:49 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3B82F2F89FD for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 03:11:49 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [217.72.192.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49R1BW6Q8Dz3ZxQ for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 03:11:47 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([94.222.15.198]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue108 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1M1pfy-1jd4WO15rc-002Ero; Tue, 19 May 2020 05:11:36 +0200 Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 05:11:35 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Janos Dohanics Cc: FreeBSD Questions Subject: Re: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD 12.0 end-of-life Message-Id: <20200519051135.9424896e.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: <20200518191731.80bda3b8f1bf183791f27bb6@3dresearch.com> References: <20200217231452.717FA1E820@freefall.freebsd.org> <20200218091959.b0220ac75bcfbbced91a5708@sohara.org> <355B9AC5-84F8-48A3-ABD2-14B43AECC9D7@kreme.com> <20200516204553.a317afe4.freebsd@edvax.de> <2C311DED-DF68-4BEB-B322-4468CB5AB31E@mail.sermon-archive.info> <20200518191731.80bda3b8f1bf183791f27bb6@3dresearch.com> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:NrgfQA48VHu5St9unkhe+RvbJCkkSHSlPjfKY+c88dd1O+VuGjK 5H8Ti3geBTGxGqYStqxVKXYEBLCGR3tjclaIGkP9Ce1ChBLjMJsm3gwPiHyjKNQ4TKGi9yD VbTDqt2KBdbC4a1XIbRz5Qnrx2E/NYfSaQ9ADMLiFYUN9YB11tD1GUlOxIFGWVm9JtgJ2LZ COo78Va9PcyTesFAI+lFw== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:SUEkuFz66gs=:+q4lCf5GgavGjwuSru1J6Z iBLIHkCNx1x37WSAfeF/Y5AyGM+K1EjMliSJ8Wwrc/+0CXUzuSPluOdnvLG2T5isMqpwap3eH uwkzyMaTx7QtKlPlltz/fsshUmQUalBnnkFUUF9zFKps/VP0p1PiQEBDtR1feoJh6YNZkJ4Ea FeFYCMVAz6FwY32JqLtmKzSu288uFeiEg5vRtPy/2o4PcFUmlQaKxDkKXNtL2AlnlVSraZ1O5 JJVPuhDenl/la3EeKyOK/WGxZcIoiK+S+WTW4VrO5BgK11o8dDxCAf2BYEUlQ6f+8zBit7UrF Ja8iKEiG2HF8xEeF10B2Wd9Ftn7LTkMJf/+IY/74xakpKiRlVLM87MXQfd1XvgJhapIKX0neZ 4+z1gaWveJbEdmnNCG8/khl0hEsTTgRd8QybNaoJ5rzLgwSJrnoK3E9QO6AjW9aQWhXSNCT/O 51X3Mifm6+idguJe8QNkU5+WfcXgKu+p7D0EGgW9jESI9AHCyhgN8wLq6pGM+/y0v5YahNBFy tI40kvgHzMbX1iwaXB1C6W+NnKAjsbnvnaMpqUUVgcvGBp9IAQV8U17zpqwLpfwZurNbIGhTA /q25NZKjdSc4WP+QAk49gcqF/j8JIXPSYhhzIIjCTI77Um6KRF2yPXR2QBZJJhTrFanzD3J69 LdRnZ3oQnTVjUwx1JuMDInD6j46ymBFdAQjOnbx2oVz80WjSnBQH+zWad0qlTs4pVmfnxr8iS BD6lfBe/lpQhBnT6jzhauPC5oZZ3QhEOioCpbirXhd3hu9Fn1lRi7Ld0X2B7B1ZLW78ARqy06 +5Q48n1dmbRc9b2JIfSXWGY2qvceCVG7e222U/qy6/qszqncrJbU6Fm6n//UpJZlc5G3rJa X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49R1BW6Q8Dz3ZxQ X-Spamd-Bar: ++ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 217.72.192.75) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [2.63 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.23)[0.230]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[94.222.15.198:received]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[217.72.192.75:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:217.72.192.0/20, country:DE]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[217.72.192.75:from] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 03:11:49 -0000 On Mon, 18 May 2020 19:17:31 -0400, Janos Dohanics wrote: > On Sat, 16 May 2020 13:12:37 -0700 > Doug Hardie wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > I started using FreeBSD somewhere between 2.5 and 2.7 and I remember > > the confusion of those "labels". Yes the information is there, but > > it's not obvious to the new user. I was running production systems > > and the name "stable" seemed like the right one. However, the > > descriptions made me think that perhaps that was not the right > > choice. I finally settled on "release" but it was quite a difficult > > decision. After many discussions on this mailing list, I finally > > understood the differences. I still find the names misleading, but I > > can work with them. I do feel for anyone new to FreeBSD trying to > > figure that out. It might be "obvious" to those who know, but it's > > not for others. > > > > -- Doug > > How stable is *-STABLE? The "potentially problematic misunderstanding" about STABLE is connecting it to stability. But STABLE means that the API and ABI are _stable_ ("the same" or "100 % compatible") for that specific development version during all of its snapshots. > The closer it is to *-RELEASE perhaps? That's hard to say. If you understand the FreeBSD development model as a kind of distillery, you cannot be sure about "near RELEASE"; imagine: Active development takes place in CURRENT / HEAD. Features get added and tested, features might also disappear. Sometimes it crashes, sometimes it doesn't even compile. From what testers confirm, further development happens. Those results arrive in STABLE for further testing and optimizing, heading toward a potential release. On this course, ALPHA, BETA, RC (release candidates) and PRERELEASE are generated, until the final version is shipped as RELEASE. From ongoing development in CURRENT (after RELEASE), the same process generates patches that then arrive in RELEASE-pX. As you will surely agree, "near RELEASE" doesn't say much if you take this model into account. > This is not to challenege the expertise of people on this list or the > sound advice of the Handbook on which branch to use for what. May be I > have been just lucky doing end-user stuff (dhcp, cyrus, postfix, apache, > samba, etc.), but *-STABLE has been stable for me. It _should_ be, as STABLE is not considered an "experimental branch" per se, it's more like "bleeding edge", where you get the latest results, but you still have the chance to cut your finger... ;-) > More likely, this reflects the quality of work FreeBSD developers have > been doing. Fully true. With such a development model, it's hard to imagine that severe mistakes "accidentally" arrive in a RELEASE, as "move fast and breat the users' things" is not the fundamental conceot of FreeBSD development. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...