Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 11:05:51 +0100 (CET) From: Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai <asmodai@wxs.nl> To: "Oben O. Candemir" <dunya@one.net.au> Cc: "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@u.washington.edu>, "Jason C. Wells" <jcwells@u.washington.edu>, Terry Lambert <tlambert@primenet.com>, freebsd-chat@FreeBSD.ORG, "Jordan K. Hubbard" <jkh@zippy.cdrom.com> Subject: RE: Sore Support Message-ID: <XFMail.990207110551.asmodai@wxs.nl> In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.05.9902071136250.248-100000@fireball.2000.com.au>
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On 07-Feb-99 Oben O. Candemir wrote: > On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Jeroen Ruigrok/Asmodai wrote: >> On 01-Feb-99 Jordan K. Hubbard wrote: >> > People have been talking about this kind of thing for ages. >> > What we lack is someone to actually DO THE WORK. :) >> >> I guess). It would make it easier on newbies (in fact it could be made a >> novice install option only as the rest of us know, ahum =), what to do). > > Some working definitions in the freebsd world: > >|futile (noun): >| Any reasonable request for support for people new to FreeBSD. > > How can someone 'DO THE WORK' without first learning *HOW* to do it? That > is something that Jordan is overlooking I guess... the plainer points of > causality. I beg yer pardon? FreeBSD support is one of the best I have thus far seen on a multitude of mailinglists (only the Amanda list surpasses it). Btw, the quotations above totally mess up the context they were placed in, what I was speaking about was people who start with FreeBSD for the first time. The rest of us, heavily experienced or slightly above newbie level like myself, know what to expect from the install menu's. There is one thing I keep emphasizing time and again, we cannot teach/help/mentor those who are not willing to learn. Sure I started off with a couple of nitwit questions myself about 6 months back (I still remember half the core team going insane over me, probably they still are) but I got pointed to documentation and try to read before going off asking things that were answered about a dozen times before in the past. If someone asks me to explain basic firewalling or beyond, my first question will be: "Do you know TCP/IP networking in detail to the packets?" 80% will answer: no. Then I won't answer until they catch up on TCP/IP so that I won't have to make the whole story 3 times as broad. > Another working definition: > >|newbie (slang): >| See low-life, lame, retard, pain-in-the-rear. Remember that there are two types of newbies: the above mentioned and the ones willing to learn. > The FreeBSD 'team' looks like they are in trouble when it comes to > supporting newbies. A truly dirty word. Documentation rules supreme in > this age of information. Perhaps the 'core team' needs to be renamed to > the "sore team" from all the scars taken from battles and opportunities > lost in winning over new users. The core team isn't really here to help newbies IMHO, they aren't core just to help newbies, their plans are to direct the project in more general lines and be more busy on the actual inner workings. The reason that commit privileges are restricted and that core watches over the total process ensures that the quality of FreeBSD in general remains intact. It's up to users amongst each other to help each other. You know it, else you wouldn't be writing for the ezine just as I am. --- Jeroen Ruigrok van der Werven join #FreeBSD on Undernet asmodai(at)wxs.nl Time is merely a residue of Reality... Network/Security Specialist <http://home.wxs.nl/~asmodai>; *BSD: Powered by Knowledge & Know-how <http://www.freebsd.org>; To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-chat" in the body of the message
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