From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 5 00:08:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03FAC337891 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) Received: from NAM11-CO1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-co1nam11olkn2075.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.18.75]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client CN "mail.protection.outlook.com", Issuer "GlobalSign Organization Validation CA - SHA256 - G3" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49dNJf6LkHz4LrX for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:02 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from brandon.helsley@hotmail.com) ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=DTrasbw7LhmYZvXz1aSuk1kd4pvxYQnQWIUr2nc5ONsEBtj/j+ohELw7UDjcsedddLVwoxIfq1LMWTroGRsfqnvTO+H1fbF/mUDOkfPUHCis1d+5e+xYCvi2JuNN5ymbybkSOgtoPucQOCKmRxqMAYSTf/ej/kF5oBX9EIwC1aTl0k1YNFBWliZ99IQuU/xuBN2+piATVMxHG9KajQIBghRtPHF4SQFe54WoGyt2YjRf0qcY/qqQsu0oMjqcpNRXQhY5zIqrAcMWViqDRU/O3ou66BSkuKusgtK6QNA2ISIshnqA/JtYBzrujay7IuJ/t6SvA/f7WvFV1IZ11I5MFw== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=hcgNNDk4mQkYnFsh5fWvqNjqALBQqqaDRzJY/U6Q+rc=; b=aT8FoHwygFzhu8JYutW4DyDSRlJ32huyogJhV6rFHy9pxOCmhRxsEmBKQWbfSKwmwDmSNHEr95OAQ20oGMtPhgkIIu5PpAQT1JLsEd8/dyjnWLuCgpZh2stlN73pDGa9ROrxm3c/VHWoGvoKci3Cylg/9MbkWw5qYxqEajgptXJteagkCKuS214wP5hiRA3uPqjr8egGYx+VDgu0T7+a0Q3eDGVU7ZXbv+TrPTK1WCDBrU0n0fOY98eqVDb4bHHm3YGjcPQhJIpFwanDu3oX+RqlkiPK2Xuk4fL853XFOZ4sSzTa/8sj0xetUYqreFNCPaQO/fztp6LHyfsaOIhTYw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=none; dmarc=none; dkim=none; arc=none DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=hcgNNDk4mQkYnFsh5fWvqNjqALBQqqaDRzJY/U6Q+rc=; b=mSn+OYfzK+OmyNBQU6HzPHAI5M9HE/+0BpMxhQh7LbnGZctm3WwQMNrbeh8uC1qw48S1MPAo0Z1CHrGSDGAXRy2Z6zsbPrNzUV3yJ7gSO4aDsaAiw7k5GfU7D1zpKGgVkXdmqXpbL0oHdM+rxcWnvuRjGziWainsk3KaeZBKLk0Iy+W9lg1uMAYAg4kAGHWtC3YnID4SRP7cIXnnbOoxLqD//t5E2HQ3ZBgXZWQ0E62RVUOcgBh1pCBYAjOlbAU4YZENks0rGx5coXb1vCDttCcEvX3lbzwXnFKOGRG5DcwXRD7Ypw4Wf1z5gIirlhU9lGSqnUkgvb89fp7TQ4sQzw== Received: from BN8NAM11FT023.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::41) by BN8NAM11HT219.eop-nam11.prod.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::280) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.18; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:01 +0000 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::45) by BN8NAM11FT023.mail.protection.outlook.com (2a01:111:e400:fc4b::359) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.18 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:01 +0000 X-IncomingTopHeaderMarker: OriginalChecksum:21044DFCCEA7CC3F0B94ECDE0C0CCDE3BC379013E09B2204F1F8E2229B135C2D; UpperCasedChecksum:A8E1754505FC214F6F12900E973B1085ED98184DF9E848D9BD21BF1A72288A45; SizeAsReceived:9729; Count:47 Received: from CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e]) by CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::3cba:126c:494b:642e%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3066.018; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:01 +0000 Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 18:07:57 -0600 From: Brandon helsley To: Polytropon Cc: freebsd-questions Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> Subject: Re: Minimal skills X-ClientProxiedBy: CH2PR10CA0016.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:4c::26) To CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:910:7a::16) X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <71e3a6bf-96fe-4038-a3e2-ffdf32abebdc@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from email.client.edison.tech (2600:1:950c:27f7:0:5a:eac5:de01) by CH2PR10CA0016.namprd10.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:610:4c::26) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3066.19 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:00 +0000 X-Microsoft-Original-Message-ID: <71e3a6bf-96fe-4038-a3e2-ffdf32abebdc@localhost> X-TMN: [qJ8m2+xHrKUiXpRocpvutHY1l1jzsL+k31pyZH205My9TI94ewjeM5Ks5WFae3D+] X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-IncomingHeaderCount: 47 X-EOPAttributedMessage: 0 X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 692eb1a2-2eba-4d8f-9574-08d808e48279 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: BN8NAM11HT219: X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0; X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 1K1AtmJS7YsOMIA7FZ2BmXCpImIH0SnSCUI/+ATlNoTUE+8bffq8ltDciHodvm82h0x39kZODvDwT+QDN1QjxT+lgKur6dGlxdrBg29y0PCwgcDeQZxPWDZK9b3gALa7XqJJ/+RVbSeXQ5EoEgfrPn8JomWbmsIYAOHXiO6pLiD+2MpvHzc0UtWT7Aqj0TzCV2DbTA8SyCwuRO7niy8p45WtCpPNw+jY8X0oI2S35uG/To2cj6iIbsav+h50DmH2 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:0; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:CY4PR19MB0104.namprd19.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFTY:; SFS:; DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData: xisC9F0QQWbT63fY3NOEv1o8By9xBOIbGGmIb43Uvtny5WmGC+R8cG7Ksaqb1Mlg5yvhzC4bR7GEJqJ+nDlovPzgrlAOZzqgUD9HeL3LKs1xewxaNvwZTEGaFcYa0GEaFNAqmjU27X/JCMeWBY9foncpobN1OTOgyohyO0lOGcH1JLfa8+Irol4bVjIgiDNs X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 692eb1a2-2eba-4d8f-9574-08d808e48279 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Jun 2020 00:08:01.2624 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BN8NAM11HT219 X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49dNJf6LkHz4LrX X-Spamd-Bar: --- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=hotmail.com header.s=selector1 header.b=mSn+OYfz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=hotmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of brandon.helsley@hotmail.com designates 40.92.18.75 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=brandon.helsley@hotmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-3.76 / 15.00]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[hotmail.com:dkim]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.01)[-1.010]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[5]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[hotmail.com:s=selector1]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip4:40.92.0.0/15]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.002]; ARC_ALLOW(-1.00)[microsoft.com:s=arcselector9901:i=1]; URI_COUNT_ODD(1.00)[11]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[hotmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[40.92.18.75:from]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.75)[-0.753]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[hotmail.com,none]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[hotmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8075, ipnet:40.64.0.0/10, country:US]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[40.92.18.75:from] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 00:08:04 -0000 >I suggest using MailDir (derived from MH) which is the standard today. THunderbird and many others use it. As you can configure the path to local mailboxes, you can use them with several programs in parallel. I can configure thunderbird to cache mail in Maildir? Never heard of Maildir though. My original plan was to have fetchmail and postfix and imap program configured to work with mbox. mbox is just default MUA though and I can replace it with thunderbird which is MUA also. But if I want to use command line MUA like mutt do I still not need these programs to poll mail? What is the difference between cacheing mail in Maildir vs using mutt and polling mail however it is that you do so? Thanks for the formatting of the message. To explain why my messages are formatted this way, I'm trying to copy the format of these messages by adding > wherever there is a new paragraph and indentation. At first I thought this was all that proper bottom posting was. Now I see that most MUA 's have automatic formating. I'll check it out and see if I can enable these settings if they are not already. > > On Jun 4, 2020 at 5:24 PM, Polytropon wrote: > > > Sidenote first: I have reformatted your reply. It has, for a reason I can not understand, the quoting characters "> " only for the first line, but not on the subsequent ones, and the lines have an empty line in between. There is no header stating who you are quoting. Your lines do not conform to the "maximum line length" suggestion, but that's also not a problem as normal MUAs can deal with this just fine. I have also removed the remaining distorted message where all line breaks and spaces seem to have vanished... On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 16:47:54 -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: > > If you have IMAP support, you can even try / use multiple MUAs and > > see what works best for you, without requiring to have multiple > > mail accounts and program-individual local mailboxes. You can even > > use Thunderbird and alpine side by side, with Maildir local storage, > > connecting to an IMAP account - all this is possible and does not > > require complicated configurations. > > That's basically what I had wanted to do since I couldn't figure > postfix out withal the mail components. You don't need to run your own postfix installation for that; use can use the one that "hotmail.com" is providing - they have an IMAP interface. > What I am aspiring for is to set up all my three email addresses > in a local mailbox like mbox or whatever. I suggest using MailDir (derived from MH) which is the standard today. THunderbird and many others use it. As you can configure the path to local mailboxes, you can use them with several programs in parallel. > I still don't quite understand the components. It seems as though > with an mua you can set this up. Thunderbird is pretty easy to set up and configure properly. It can connect to IMAP accounts without any further tools, and it can cache messages in local mailboxes in MailDir format. > So then what is fetchmail and imap programs like dovecot for if > an MUA works for this. The MUA is the _user's_ s ide of the whole thing - the program the user interacts with to read, write, and sort messages. In your case, it's the K-9 app on your Android phone. The fetchmail program obtains messages from your account using POP3 or IMAP and stores them in a local mailbox. It's a tool to "get your messages". For example, I use fetchmail to get my messages from my account and have them in local mailboxes. It's used to receive messages. I need something else to send messages - this is done by my MUA. (It incorporates new messages from the local mailbox filled by fetchmail.) But as I said, this is not needed (!), and maybe not even desired given the convenience and flexibility of IMAP (often built into the MUA). And dovecot is the counterpart for tools like fetchmail: it runs on the server fetchmail connects to. You have a typical client-server-setting here. In relation to mailing, you can make yourself familiar with the different acronyms, their meaning, program examples, and what they do ("sends message to an incoming server", "puts message into a user's mailbox on the server", and so on). > Or can I only poll mail to a local mailbox in my directory tree > somewhere with MTA? With a MUA (NB: U!) like Thunderbird or alpine, this is done automatically when you have set up your account connection as IMAP and poll for new messages. You don't need to manually involve a MTA such as postfix here. The MTA is responsible for sending your message to the desired recipient. Mail handling involves a few more agents, I know, but I wanted to simplify this a bit, and I didn't even talk about spam filters, virus scanners, signing, certificates, trust and all the other things... ;-) You can find more information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Email_agent_(infrastructure) The different components are covered here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_user_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_submission_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_transfer_agent https://en.wikip edia.org/wiki/Mail_delivery_agent https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mail_retrieval_agent Covered agents cannot be detected. ;-) What you should get running first is a MUA. Everything else is already handled by your provider "hotmail.com". -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... > From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 5 00:08:04 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DCF15337909 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:04 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: from mail-lf1-x142.google.com (mail-lf1-x142.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::142]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49dNJh0tJzz4MDq for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:08:03 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from dwilde1@gmail.com) Received: by mail-lf1-x142.google.com with SMTP id d7so4686621lfi.12 for ; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 17:08:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=uLuycsVnhewcyhVsgMIyG0GZb3TKAci0bNXXyGLEIJA=; b=mAQMK20jq+YeGt1GE84ff+IVTgmHpL00NyUqBFFOTKx9YyzISaFMQaV0OWOry6IIWi IkAsQr80pUwmz5pDOr1D8sLvKj9hlvHUu4IMYp9IjqctVB5GjCCqAY6D2bGSX42pXK0L zSLJNNfY6WvoY4w+vZP5GN9pIguOJQdZt1AypfADf9IVGhythjDOyNM6yptDaPEy2PdU LzIHL5/TJH9gGO5X8cvQ0H6ZNqCG1/iyuxRma/QQbMi5W3V7p45SIkt9huGqBDimxS5A 6CvBJyueWFfd8Gf547iV7U1g+k10BFhRtdRt7O0FzYtUlmMn1pp7Pmt8uSzdt9oFnN+G 368A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:reply-to:in-reply-to:references :from:date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=uLuycsVnhewcyhVsgMIyG0GZb3TKAci0bNXXyGLEIJA=; b=TkufOpDiROTiNSxD18NorzjprWsVmDecY0Su0LYXVsUDKrOwpgEk/O1jPJ+4SWw1SG mGFV+ZM0GAihaFHUfqNPlsv/hJ0pNP74pmygxBw0ayjxicbsxwG/vzmPbYMUCg5QjgPk xoTIhWN4NgVYV5rcE7/coGh9+8BBpY3v6XdXPL0xwGnhHQK9I1MxZBxPGQIPvbi4AeXO n2148yS5hJymM0zKJRn54Mp51HyFe3WJfEPT6+asZqtMo9Frhfz9fCz4jVnaDpL4aY6v cESjEFqkrvwr7DX+HtOZ5LgWcDaSpu01LbiXg0/DPAjjiJXbyu/v5+jBHdEWOIxTBN/Q yD4Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5324syPrKjm8Epci9HPudW7y3FSG5+p2K3993QFicHLI+6UjVHws THLeHUVyDxdc35J7Qa6l+eGzcYjYcWm+88cmVWY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyZiqlCOD2ZNsmMTQ9SsWSczX+6iDlK21ew9EQQurvaiHivgsE0dRSEEH/moVH2dxDtQUEeAHQ0BwZxSJv0GRQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:5597:: with SMTP id v23mr3804127lfg.42.1591315682235; Thu, 04 Jun 2020 17:08:02 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 2002:a05:6504:47:0:0:0:0 with HTTP; Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: dwilde1@gmail.com In-Reply-To: References: <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> From: Donald Wilde Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2020 17:08:01 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Minimal skills To: Brandon helsley Cc: freebsd-questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49dNJh0tJzz4MDq X-Spamd-Bar: -- Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=mAQMK20j; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of dwilde1@gmail.com designates 2a00:1450:4864:20::142 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=dwilde1@gmail.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-2.37 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[dwilde1@gmail.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2a00:1450:4000::/36]; REPLYTO_ADDR_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[gmail.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(-0.50)[gmail.com,none]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[gmail.com]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2a00:1450::/32, country:US]; DWL_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[gmail.com:dkim]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.04)[-1.043]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[gmail.com:s=20161025]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.65)[0.650]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.98)[-0.977]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; FREEMAIL_REPLYTO(0.00)[gmail.com]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[freebsd-questions@freebsd.org]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2a00:1450:4864:20::142:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 00:08:04 -0000 On 6/4/20, Brandon helsley wrote: >> Actually, besides being THE go-to reference on C, it's the >> best-written C book out there and the most elegant presentation of the >> basic concepts. I have a bunch. While the bits and pieces AROUND C >> have evolved, C itself really hasn't. I prefer the K&R braces over >> GNU, myself, even though most of the 'NIX world is tilting towards the >> GNU landslide. >>Thank you for interspersing your comments as I asked, Brandon. You >> have shown the whole Project that you can learn and WILCO without >> complaint! Good coder, GOOD! :D > I'm doing the indentation myself. Does your mailer do the indentation for > you or do you do it yourself? Ouch! I was afraid of that. I use GMail in my browser (FF or Chromium on Ubuntu, in this case), and it converts any non-ASCII text as best it can. If recruiters send me a bulleted list of job description items, it leaves the bullet character but puts it inside of the '>' that GMail uses for indenting comments. I am going to make a suggestion here, which may make you think SOMEBODY is truly far off the reservation called 'nice people'. If your MUA is Outlook, get into its settings and attempt to turn off HTML formatting for both incoming and outgoing e-mails. I never bought Outlook for my 'doze box so I can't tell you exactly how to do it. If it's an Android phone, whatever MUA you have on it should also have such setting switches. If you can actually get MS to accept this, you might not want to leave it that way as HTML e-mails are definitely more fun to look at than raw text. Do it as a learning experiment. What I'd suggest that you do is to go to gmail.com and create brandon.helsey@gmail.com and subscribe that address to your open-source mailing list collection. The GMail client can be accessed from any (lynx, anyone? Haven't tested THAT one :) ) web browser, so you can use this on your FreeBSD machine or even a public library computer. The downside to GMail is that it is more difficult to categorize e-mails, but IIRC it can be done. -- Don Wilde **************************************************** * What is the Internet of Things but a system * * of systems including humans? * ****************************************************