From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 31 00:34:37 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C30E106566B for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 00:34:37 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net) Received: from mailhub.rachie.is-a-geek.net (rachie.is-a-geek.net [66.230.99.27]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA3608FC19 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 00:34:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net) Received: from smoochies.rachie.is-a-geek.net (mailhub.lan.rachie.is-a-geek.net [192.168.2.11]) by mailhub.rachie.is-a-geek.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 987617E818; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:34:35 -0800 (AKDT) From: Mel Flynn To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 16:34:34 -0800 User-Agent: KMail/1.11.4 (FreeBSD/8.0-BETA2; KDE/4.2.4; i386; ; ) References: <4A71F561.2050103@videotron.ca> <200907301308.01035.mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline Message-Id: <200907301634.34562.mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net> Cc: Adam Vande More , Andrew Gould , Freminlins , PJ Subject: Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 00:34:37 -0000 On Thursday 30 July 2009 14:50:07 Freminlins wrote: > 2009/7/30 Mel Flynn > ailing.thruhere.net> > > > You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, > > for which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not > > all) of > > the configuration has been done for you. > > I disagree with that. It even says on the FreeBSD web site "FreeBSD=AE is= an > advanced operating system for modern server, desktop...". The key is that the Xorg software is *not* part of FreeBSD. It may work, it= =20 may not. A FreeBSD release is shipped with the intention that all software = in=20 base and kernel are "working by default" and if it's not, the FreeBSD=20 developers claim responsibility for fixing it. The line is gray where it co= mes=20 to X11, yet it's still a line. > I have used FreeBSD on the desktop for about 6 years (but not yet running > 7.2). It has mostly been a pleasure. I didn't like it when X was changed = to > individual packages, as it now takes considerably longer to install. And > the output from pkg_info takes correspondingly longer to search through. = It > also installs two scripting languages (Perl and Python). I haven't had a > problem configuring X for years. I never claimed that FreeBSD can't be used on a desktop, I've been doing th= at=20 since 4.7-RELEASE. Whether you and me can do it, is not up for dispute. Wha= t=20 is, is that bugs are attributed to 7.2-RELEASE, which are all bugs in 3rd=20 party software and should be reported to ports@, with proper information if= =20 people care about those problems getting fixed. Even then it may be out of = the=20 hands of those volunteers, if it relies on propriety software of which the= =20 developers have expressed no interest to support FreeBSD (like flash). > If something has changed which then causes problems to end users, then th= at > is not good. And it's no good telling people "use PCBSD" or something els= e. > That's not what we want. We want to use FreeBSD on the desktop. And we are. It's not for everybody and PCBSD is a FreeBSD desktop system=20 specifically created for people that don't want to do all the configuring a= nd=20 troubleshooting that may come with installing a desktop system. PCBSD is=20 =46reeBSD (the latest major version -STABLE), with extra effort to make thi= ngs=20 easier and people claiming responsibility for a working graphical desktop. > Don't try and put people off using FreeBSD. It would be much better to he= lp > them resolves the problems they are having. As said above, PCBSD is FreeBSD. And for many, it is the best help one can= =20 give. One must first learn to walk, if one wants to run. Also, if you _really_ want things to change for *BSD, then you should acqui= re=20 a group of people that are willing and able to fork Xorg, get rid of it's h= al=20 and python dependency, repackage sensibly and do some proper release=20 engineering. Especially the latter is what is causing the problems of late.= =20 Either that, or convince the Xorg people to do that. =2D-=20 Mel