Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2016 09:27:02 +0300 From: Dan Partelly <dan_partelly@rdsor.ro> To: Warner Losh <imp@bsdimp.com> Cc: Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon@orthanc.ca>, Matthew Grooms <mgrooms@shrew.net>, FreeBSD Current <freebsd-current@freebsd.org> Subject: Re: [CFT] packaging the base system with pkg(8) Message-ID: <9BA8C798-C87D-4CA8-9AB3-CEC309AB81A5@rdsor.ro> In-Reply-To: <CANCZdfpH4W0eE9DDC3mwMmJ69styoT4fMPhNYUiiqLQ5a5ROoA@mail.gmail.com> References: <E1asbZj-0003Ra-Qs@rmm6prod02.runbox.com> <76093.1461096570@critter.freebsd.dk> <5716AD65.8070007@shrew.net> <BF66EA01-E073-45F0-8F9E-22D57E8871B0@bsdimp.com> <alpine.OSX.2.00.1604221915370.15755@minnie.bitsea.ca> <CANCZdfpH4W0eE9DDC3mwMmJ69styoT4fMPhNYUiiqLQ5a5ROoA@mail.gmail.com>
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>>=20 >=20 > *THAT* is the tone I was complaining about. This is not at all = respectful. >=20 Respect is a two way street. If you want respect, offer yours. We make = our point very poorly, I get you, but it is the result of what you = and others from the projectdo. Meaning, 0 communication. I dont know if = that means 0 communications skills,or you do not communicate on = purpose. You as a member of the core team, should be one of the first = to address this problem.=20 After all you the core invested time in code of conducts and other = things of questionable value, but at the same time you always avoid to = clearly communicate with your user base. > 've met personally with Glen, in person. I had a wonderful chat with = him. Maybe you did. We did not. Serious mechanism issues regarding pkg went = unanswered on the other list. Look on pkg list, very rational, polite, = and to the subject, 100% rational message about pkg base which is not = responded. So, you complain about tone, and how helpful would be for = ppl to change it. Let me give you a suggestion: start with altering your = own behaviour. Offer respect, be communicative, less sensible on = internet where it is very hard to convey =E2=80=9Ctone=E2=80=9D. You'll = see that it works wonders to indirectly alter the behaviour of the = people you so eloquently compared to peasants daring to disturb the lord = of the castle. You says that everything will be OK. I want to believe you. But giving = the track record VIMAGE has, and how many gugs go on and on with years = Im not so sure that you guys wont do the same with this subsystem, and = leave it with rough edges for half a decade. Because we all know that = everything will be OK in the end. Timeframe is also important. >=20 >=20 >> And I really think THAT is the crux of the argument everyone is = trying to >> make. >>=20 >> To reiterate: packages are good. In moderation. As with all other >> things. But they have to solve the general case, and pkg - both the = tool >> and the methodology in its current and pending incarnations - does = not. >>=20 >> I, and others, are trying to have a real conversation about this. = But the >> blowback is incredible. Let alone incredulous. >=20 >=20 > That is understood. Being toxic about it isn't going to help. Being > disrespectful is not going to help. Being hyperbolic isn't going to = help. > It isn't a real conversation until that stuff is gone. So far I've = seen no > evidence of it being gone. >=20 > I've met personally with Glen, in person. I had a wonderful chat with = him. > Based on talking to him, it was clear many of the complaints here were > overblown. Are there rough edges? Yes. Are there things we don't know? = Yes. > Is it the end of the world? No. Over the coming weeks, things will get > easier. The rough edges will be sanded off. After talking with him, I = have > complete confidence in him and others that are working on making this > happen. I don't need it to be perfect today, because of this = confidence. >=20 > I personally will be refraining from engaging further. I plan on = seeing > what gaps there are by adding support to NanoBSD for packages. I'll be = busy > with that. In talking to Glen and others, we've already identified a = few > easy gaps to fill. Once they've done that, I'll get going on NanoBSD = with > the goal to be able to use it to build a bootable system of any > architecture from packages with no root privs. I expect to find = issues, but > I don't expect to find any issue that's intractable. I expect after = the > issues are resolved, the end product will be better for everybody. >=20 > Warner > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-current@freebsd.org mailing list > https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-current > To unsubscribe, send any mail to = "freebsd-current-unsubscribe@freebsd.org"
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