From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Oct 11 03:22:39 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CAE5216A418 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:22:39 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from speedtoys.racing@gmail.com) Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com (fk-out-0910.google.com [209.85.128.184]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41CC013C455 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:22:38 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from speedtoys.racing@gmail.com) Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id b27so413522fka for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; bh=wG8kNfqdUHYAsrkmVWRWpkY45ErWElVtLsWchsFMtSM=; b=CBLOqSC8SSV7nUqUw3ZyeT/CI1nmfGpwehyNycRxmevEH+FE4kqsT1dQ1DiyeB6QIhkcVkpZmJQ9dVwag2J9r193xs1PDdeDBWT9+rYKxLNaciPb6qRhZ3hiLyDP08Mc6YqN8xxmbHiEw0RoYfpgCZ7QwADCE1a7SZyAhyjg/YQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=beta; h=received:message-id:date:from:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references; b=jaMLPZPglZdzydL98Hzq7XeCDcwxgDUcx7a6MAIV2SmocM6yN5QZHPrqx8EOgU9VpskGu3jFazMw/W1x39sKyR++Bjq3I1HJQUnQGN2wWMoGT3kXx8Zz8IEzxTKoZgdRWha1tXQXc+f1LLMAeWMPchxLXWdTI2wB6cd6vzWGAQ4= Received: by 10.82.162.14 with SMTP id k14mr2899446bue.1192072957382; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.82.186.11 with HTTP; Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 20:22:37 -0700 From: "Jeff Mohler" To: Nodje In-Reply-To: <470D8558.9010208@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <470D8558.9010208@gmail.com> Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Installing freeBSD on an Intel RAID5 partition X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 03:22:40 -0000 SATA drives just aint built with the same resiliency as SCSI, hence the massive difference in cost. So..as an example, the Hitachi 500G 7K500 drive has a non recoverable bitrate of 1 in 10^14th. The 10K300 FCAL (basically scsi) drive is 1 in 10^16th. Those two zeros mean a _lot_. I removed a lot of my own math here, knowing that Ive read this somewhere before..huzzah for google! http://blogs.netapp.com/dave/2006/03/expect_double_d.html?no_prefetch=1 Im used to working with much larger drives, in very large RGs..so Im correctable, youre not going to play with the devil TOO much in a home for small business system, just not enough drives. But now you can find 1TB drives, and 7 of those in a raid wont be hard to find pretty soon. Eventually..you will hit a non recoverable bit error during a reconstruction, and you wont have parity to go to, to recover it. Unless youre using a dual parity layout of some type. Drives are also more common to fail when put into use from being spares, because theyve never been exercised over a long period of time..ya never know. The quality of the firmware that operates consumer SATA isnt near the level of quality that server drives are either, which can create ghost errors that dont truly exist, but to the OS are in fact errors which can shave off a few zeros as well. On 10/10/07, Nodje wrote: > > well, you mean on RAID5 then, coz there's probably no math in > reconstructing a RAID1. > > Why would the math on SATA be less reliable than on SCSI??? > > Where d'you read that anyway?? > > > > Jeff Mohler wrote: > Did you know that most "oh my god" RAID failures happen during the > reconstruction of a failed drive? > > .Especially on SATA as the non-recoverable-bit-error math is so much > easier to run into. > > I think..that on a 500G drive, there are enough bits to read/write > that mathematically you could run into a double-drive failure every > time you have to recover. Although, statistically it wouldnt happen > every time. > > No raid solves any backup problem. > > > > I've been using those Intel RAID with Windows for a couple of years now and > it really helped solve my backup problem. > I think this is simply great, no worries of data loss anymore (at least > coming from hardware failure). > > -nodje > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to > "freebsd-questions-unsubscribe@freebsd.org" > > > > > >