From owner-svn-src-stable@freebsd.org Fri Mar 9 16:00:20 2018 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96B82F342B3 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2018 16:00:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-io0-x22d.google.com (mail-io0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 231D27DC8A for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2018 16:00:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-io0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id e30so4045702ioc.3 for ; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 08:00:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=qs2aV+J4LoZtzkw57zVM00jal7c0Ho8NvVrXHpadpX0=; b=yod2P9wIjiMPAYcHEa0IM20yD1muXCsQ4+f5GmrzRRqPaHYSFcz5plB/oFWetKPPK1 sN8YIUxpF93iihVOR8M3tP0pYMFIjr+DPNHJ/VbxhU4rCbgeyyuHnQU4FCALABPVy3nE u+71NLsGpcoIyzQiqjIhlCrSgMQFSKjkFmXhck5bW/7kV5VhMi7gZ0Bev+UMw64DyBYc 2gmesXKvOqpEGqo9HqvLXDppWycVd7dVdrH3Q+7ffjBY6SVy1OazYmN6Nr0ZSKOc8wvD faybIL+kW363+wtA6qIHvwUeV6IG8qOMUdVml0AG6EbYjk4on+VQB9u8CI5AiFc0UXuQ 3Jgg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=qs2aV+J4LoZtzkw57zVM00jal7c0Ho8NvVrXHpadpX0=; b=dD5JIEwTspohAnbafwHX1wQHCEHxHP4taxTwP5QGdCq/fsKUwh+qW3/nqcFwDjWE6T osSQTx0+UgxrACRyqQVktmRf9/DwAYL95YGRwWQhcWaV/rKTQdh9JoIXY6Xadv9C/M0n 0yi8OAKFi9y1NQSR1yVcYmlFs34PjupnppqDfiywsfxc3wl1KIIoStFUnhztNu9BzY+D fy6n9ZNJJdtURZwmH9pxY9X2+KFkvIZuAC4i+I+kuB2moPO8Xpvo6p7TsXuiRBtRBdd9 xdhoQQ6NtHZ/Xq9aEz1B8cLsXMWRRMohM+iqGpXZg8306vIK8aEt5BmogH5eUqN8PqIc 9nXg== X-Gm-Message-State: APf1xPARMOoMFit87CdOQykg1N6BBZfe9i9TH4tZ799mRHMOC1sySzJz RiN5JN/+ssoWjVWiWyDD8+ppJQU09zrwYLHLQ9j0wg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AG47ELuAXxY1m5jBKpZ4TZhiT8GzOYMBTjzl5+KQxL84Z8AVR90M13FT4VzTtB+rAoXCVJfZlIKVeMlcI0OWkK/XDC8= X-Received: by 10.107.2.6 with SMTP id 6mr35734652ioc.117.1520611218835; Fri, 09 Mar 2018 08:00:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: wlosh@bsdimp.com Received: by 10.79.203.196 with HTTP; Fri, 9 Mar 2018 08:00:18 -0800 (PST) X-Originating-IP: [2603:300b:6:5100:18a2:a4f7:170:8dd9] In-Reply-To: References: <20180309110240.GA77718@FreeBSD.org> <201803091528.w29FSabK065005@pdx.rh.CN85.dnsmgr.net> From: Warner Losh Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2018 09:00:18 -0700 X-Google-Sender-Auth: t4ts4G6-tSFetFXnplXoA_rSyac Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r330451 - in stable/11/sys: dev/iwm dev/otus dev/usb/wlan net80211 To: Kyle Evans Cc: "Rodney W. Grimes" , svn-src-stable@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers , svn-src-stable-11@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.25 X-BeenThere: svn-src-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.25 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for all the -stable branches of the src tree List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2018 16:00:20 -0000 On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Kyle Evans wrote: > On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:28 AM, Rodney W. Grimes > wrote: > >> On Wed, Mar 07, 2018 at 02:53:49PM -0800, Eitan Adler wrote: > >> > On 7 March 2018 at 09:37, John Baldwin wrote: > >> > > ... > >> > > I suspect many of these changes for iwm, etc. are all intertwined > >> > > so I'm not sure if you can leave out individual ones. > >> > > >> > Possibly. I do have iwm working on my laptop though. I also know of > >> > one open PR assigned to me w.r.t. a model I don't own. I'll be > >> > addressing it some time this week. > >> > >> I often have mixed feelings when I see lots of similar changes (i.e. > >> that make up for better hardware support, esp. on a laptop) MFCed. > >> I'd rather see laptop users run -CURRENT and leave -STABLE branches > >> for very conservative (server?) users who can't/don't want to afford > >> the risks of running -CURRENT or require ABI stability in a really > >> long run, rather than binge-merging things. :-) > >> > >> By default it should be -CURRENT all over; it's a very good thing > >> that we as a Project ourselves are doing this as part of our own > >> dogfood eating strategy. > > > > As a data point just last night a person came into #freebsd irc > > channel with a none working wireless nic on a desktop, he was > > attemtping to use a Realteak RTL8192EU on 11.1-RELEASE. > > > > Someone had already told him to try urtwn driver, which in > > -current is the right driver and supports this device. > > > > It did not work for him. This is about when I came in to the > > discussion, and helped to confirm that -current did infact > > have support for this device, and that this supported had > > existed in -current for 16 months, and that this support > > would not be a simple grab a couple driver files and build > > it on 11.1. > > > > The commit to add this support involves 46 files, which 18 > > of are new files. > > > > My feelings are if this driver has been in -current for > > 16 months why is it NOT in -stable yet? I know part of > > the answer "its not a simple merge". But as a project > > this is egg on our face. We can merge a new very complicated > > change to a our boot code, within a few months (thank you > > kevans for that work), but we can not merge back a > > device driver in 16? > > > > I had the same questions- this exact same person had hopped over to > #freebsd-wifi and I had walked through this same process, identifying > it as "not MFC-able" at this point because so many commits having been > left un-merged prior to it. I've already recently gone through the fun > of catching up on one and a half years worth of unmerged work in > stand, I'm not really prepared to do it again quite yet. > > It felt pretty bad having to tell him that his only option here was to > either hop on -CURRENT + rtwn(4) or grab a stable/11 supported NIC- > especially since stable/11 is still supposed to be supported for > another three (3!) years, and I had to leave before I could help him > walk through getting it setup on -CURRENT properly > one has to wonder why 12.0 is so far in the future.... Warner