From owner-freebsd-questions@FreeBSD.ORG Fri Jul 31 02:24:55 2009 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE441065678 for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:24:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrewlylegould@gmail.com) Received: from mail-fx0-f210.google.com (mail-fx0-f210.google.com [209.85.220.210]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 245EA8FC0C for ; Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:24:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from andrewlylegould@gmail.com) Received: by fxm6 with SMTP id 6so83157fxm.43 for ; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:24:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=KHXcP9/RZDGxZHWMu0ZO512DJtrMeo38Uk9si3g3SlE=; b=A/1OLJZFuBcPtNoFH5FAJQ9LGeISTDnEMi9KdJ4htMBisZ0UeaeeTakAVIRyHugsij uRXm4azPpqpWdHvT65gNGgDzU5JykJwhMSHFcJjI4JjZ4yQkFVIWnkAGteGwcCUT7ls4 vurABBZARe33tWymuFoqtX14v6U6YIjU23uWA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=lr+1tG/JyxuUHw/TggDWz+lF6Z0SfKAhoWnrOlnCuc8vUTl3XfaI1ujjn2GXGn7oEp vIlw+t+Jaem3Sg4hWQDNfzENrtRwatqetqlWzH+VBdaAuEnIIQ5vOnzsdqwUIBTvkDo1 RaKXh2vYpGE8mrwddcaCVjtMgoi13b3szoOjA= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.127.4 with SMTP id e4mr1109403fas.100.1249007094295; Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:24:54 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <200907301308.01035.mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net> References: <4A71F561.2050103@videotron.ca> <6201873e0907301306x4bc9a4c6n3e8ca0affc7d8fe5@mail.gmail.com> <200907301308.01035.mel.flynn+fbsd.questions@mailing.thruhere.net> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 21:24:54 -0500 Message-ID: From: Andrew Gould To: Mel Flynn Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: 7.2 RELEASE ? Buggy as hell X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2009 02:24:56 -0000 On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Mel Flynn wrote: > On Thursday 30 July 2009 12:50:11 Andrew Gould wrote: >> On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 3:06 PM, Adam Vande More > wrote: >> > On Thu, Jul 30, 2009 at 2:32 PM, PJ wrote: >> >> I have (supposedly, as I am told by my bootup) upgraded to 7.2 >> >> Wonderful. But how do i make this thing work. I've managed to do it o= n >> >> an amd64 on an ACER Travelmate 4400 running at 1600mhz. >> >> This box runs on 3ghz; Xorg comes up and the mouse is dead. Flashplay= er9 >> >> with linux-emulator f8 and all the tweaks does not work, acroread9 do= es >> >> not either, >> >> hal is useless. I've tried turning off the option AllowEmptyInput to >> >> off; i've tried starting hal - and when I run startx, the configurati= on >> >> file is the default built-in... I don't understand what the hell is >> >> going on... None of the solutions on google seem to work either... >> >> oh, but there is some sunlight in neverneverland... I can boot and I = can >> >> install all kinds of files - funny, I don't want to play with this >> >> crap... and I certainly am not going to reinstall after all I have go= ne >> >> through... If I do reinstall, it will be another OS. >> >> If it all works on amd64, what's wrong with i386? >> >> I think it's time to switch to something more reliable. >> >> >> >> There's nothing wrong i386, at least in the regard you're suggesting. >> >> =A0Try >> > >> > searching deeper within yourself for the issue. >> > >> > -- >> > Adam Vande More >> >> I don't think that answer was helpful. > > It's the right answer though. > >> PJ is not alone in frustration regarding 7.2. =A0For many users, it's >> hard to tell whether the balance of difficulties lies in bugs or new >> manual configuration requirements of 7.2. >> >> I think much of the frustration lies in our perception of "STABLE". >> When we upgraded from 7.1 (or 7.0), we expected a fairly smooth ride. >> I had frustrations related to X (hal), mounting drives (hal), printing >> (cups vs applications), and printing (gimp vs hpijs). =A0Yes, I read the >> (uncentralized) documentation. > > I think release CD's should not contain packages anymore, cause everythin= g you > describe here, has absolutely nothing to do with FreeBSD 7.2, but with 3r= d > party software that happened to be packaged at release time. > You should really be using PCBSD if you want a packaged desktop system, f= or > which the developers claim responsibility and for which much (if not all)= of > the configuration has been done for you. > When using FreeBSD you are expected to understand the handbook, configure > things on your own and be able to troubleshoot problems and/or provide th= e > right information in case you need help. If you can't do this, then FreeB= SD is > not the right tool for you. No harm in that, nobody forces you to use Fre= eBSD > nor will convict you for using an OS that suits you better. > -- > Mel > Your answer is presumptuous. You've already assumed that my problems lie in my inability or lack of willingness to read the documentation and perform configuration. I have been running X on FreeBSD successfully since version 4.0 and have been reading documentation and configuring my system since 2000. I'm not just talking about X, I'm talking about postfix, postgresql, samba, apache with webdav over ssl, etc. I am having far more trouble with a STABLE release than I had with 5.0. After searching many decentralized sources of the sacred documentation (when will the brow beating end?) and reconfiguring my system, I am still having problems. I have been to PC-BSD and back again. I prefer some of my own configurations. If I, after these 8 to 9 years, am having a surprising level of difficulty, I would prefer not to be handily dismissed as a spoon-fed noob. It is easy, and technically correct, to separate the core FreeBSD system from the ports. This I grant you. Beyond the initial clarification, however, it is not the least bit useful. To the world of FreeBSD users, even many of the technically advanced users, FreeBSD would lose much of its usefulness without the ports. So, beyond saying that it's not your problem, what have you accomplished? I'll get off my soap box now. If I sound overly frustrated or sound like I'm ranting, it's because I am accustomed to that sense of control that FreeBSD provides.....only, I've lost that feeling on the desktop side. Andrew