From owner-freebsd-sparc64@FreeBSD.ORG Sun Nov 4 23:55:57 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3187316A420 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:55:57 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carton@Ivy.NET) Received: from sakima.Ivy.NET (sakima.Ivy.NET [IPv6:2610:1f8:dc:41:220:edff:fe27:e764]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08FE13C4B7 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 23:55:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from carton@Ivy.NET) Received: from castrovalva.Ivy.NET (castrovalva.Ivy.NET [IPv6:2610:1f8:dc:c0::3]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by sakima.Ivy.NET (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B95A80E9 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:57:44 -0500 (EST) Received: by castrovalva.Ivy.NET (Postfix, from userid 405) id 31CE412FD0E; Sun, 4 Nov 2007 18:55:55 -0500 (EST) To: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org References: <200711011822.25884.linimon@lonesome.com> <20071104114811.GA19506@soaustin.net> <472DF0DA.7090401@FreeBSD.org> <20071104203144.GA30608@soaustin.net> From: Miles Nordin MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Nov__4_18:55:54_2007-1"; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 18:55:54 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20071104203144.GA30608@soaustin.net> (Mark Linimon's message of "Sun, 4 Nov 2007 14:31:44 -0600") Message-ID: User-Agent: T-gnus/6.17.2 (based on No Gnus v0.2) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.4 (alpha--netbsd) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) Subject: Re: Doesn't anything work around here? X-BeenThere: freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Porting FreeBSD to the Sparc List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2007 23:55:57 -0000 --pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Nov__4_18:55:54_2007-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >>>>> "ml" == Mark Linimon writes: ml> And thus, your recommendation is? I wouldn't risk hazarding one. I'm not blaming anyone. It just sucks is all. ml> If you want things fixed, you're going to need to be proactive ml> in identifying sources of breakage and notifying the people ml> that caused them, whether that's via email or send-pr. yes, agreed. but it can be overwhelming to spend one's time compiling things over and over again just to keep security-patched what used to work fine yesterday, especially for someone who is bored with sysadmining and would like a stable platform from which to work on something else. Also I've found that reporting problems is a poor way of getting them fixed. It's much better to fix yourself the one problem you find most bothersome, than to meticulously report ten other problems. In my experience filing problem reports mostly earns you yearly emails, ``I'm thinking of working on your problem, but before I work on this, please rebuild your whole system with our latest CVS and report back whether you're still having the problem.'' This goes on ~forever. For something like a broken web browser, it's _so_ ubiquitously used that I think the few people able to fix the convoluted mess will become interested in fixing it and discover the problem at approximately the same time. ``Firefox doesn't work'' probably already isn't some obscure bug for which we need more testers becuase it keeps slipping through the cracks. The other issue is, the web browser keeps breaking, so if what some user wants is a *stable platform* from which to do other things besides repeatedly recompile FreeBSD, reporting doesn't get you what you want because it's just going to break again. What helps get you what you want is: knowing that the web browser keeps breaking on sparc64. Knowing this, you can avoid running this platform on desktops, which will get you what you want! As a user who doesn't know how, or want to learn how, to fix web browsers (yes, such people *DO* exist and shouldn't have to appologize for existing!), stubbornly continuing to use the platform while blaming yourself for not operating a bunch of constabuild labs and aggressively keeping up with a dozen PR's won't get you closer to what you want. I hope no one feels like I'm discounting his or her contribution, or blaming volunteers for something, even if I don't consistently keep my frustration politely hidden. :) I am allowed to be frustrated, right? That's not wrong, is it? --pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Nov__4_18:55:54_2007-1 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (NetBSD) iQCVAwUARy5cConCBbTaW/4dAQJCTAP+JN/ZU7KSIdMS5S/XRJjYx1eaPR6P4qx/ C+us2GY/kEWRXRisdve3HK+po7Ybbtz7a9RfYqfptyqwJNIrx7UPhs35+Z1anf+f 9F6pMGh6XAqx4c3QoCjuAZ9mU3k9DA72hvuVLnKebXo63S4t55w8aeMIpK3WgTCH t5AQWe8SI7E= =Gk4I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --pgp-sign-Multipart_Sun_Nov__4_18:55:54_2007-1--