From owner-freebsd-current Fri Dec 10 10:10:17 1999 Delivered-To: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Received: from ns.mt.sri.com (ns.mt.sri.com [206.127.79.91]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC279157D0; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 10:10:12 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nate@mt.sri.com) Received: from mt.sri.com (rocky.mt.sri.com [206.127.76.100]) by ns.mt.sri.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA24138; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:10:09 -0700 (MST) (envelope-from nate@rocky.mt.sri.com) Received: by mt.sri.com (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA19928; Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:10:08 -0700 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1999 11:10:08 -0700 Message-Id: <199912101810.LAA19928@mt.sri.com> From: Nate Williams MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: Poul-Henning Kamp Cc: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams), Mike Smith , Christopher Masto , Julian Elischer , current@FreeBSD.ORG Subject: Re: HEADSUP: wd driver will be retired! In-Reply-To: <6152.944849073@critter.freebsd.dk> References: <199912101757.KAA19772@mt.sri.com> <6152.944849073@critter.freebsd.dk> X-Mailer: VM 6.34 under 19.16 "Lille" XEmacs Lucid Reply-To: nate@mt.sri.com (Nate Williams) Sender: owner-freebsd-current@FreeBSD.ORG Precedence: bulk X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG > In message <199912101757.KAA19772@mt.sri.com>, Nate Williams writes: > >> What we need here is a commitment to these new initiatives, not a lot of > >> fence-sitting and clutching our knitting to our chests. > > > >If all our users were developers I would agree. But *most* of our users > >are not developers. > > -CURRENT should have very few users who are not developers in some > capacity. Sure, but in a couple of weeks, -current will be 4.0-Release, which is not -current anymore. > >Good question. What are we trying to achieve here? I thought it was to > >provide the best OS that is usable to the largest number of users? > > And this requires us to move away the old cruft so we force the > people on the bleeding edge to test the new stuff. Force people is what I'm having problems with. *Most* people will install 4.0, and give it a good shakeout. The rest of the people are choosing to stick with the old driver for their reasons, and you're (in effect) telling them that you know better than they do what their needs are. And, you're 'forcing' them to either cod or have their systems not work as well as they used to do. From my experience, this is unacceptable if we're in the business of providing a product/service to our users. So, I ask again, what exactly are we trying to accomplish here? > All in all, it sounds to me like a lot of people are presenting > a stance which can be summarized as: > > "why should *I* have to be guinea-pig for the ata driver > in -current make somebody else test it first." Right, there are people *WILLING* to test it. > To which the answer is: If you decide to run -current you have > tacitly agreed to be a guinea-pig for FreeBSD developers, so > shut up and test. I'm with Warner. If the ATA driver went golden 2-3 months ago, then I'd say go for it. But not 2-3 days ago. You're only telling your user-base that they are less important than you are. (Although, this may be what you believe, so who am I to tell you otherwise). Nate To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo@FreeBSD.org with "unsubscribe freebsd-current" in the body of the message