From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Fri Jun 5 00:35:11 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B096B338959 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:35:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from mout.kundenserver.de (mout.kundenserver.de [212.227.17.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "mout.kundenserver.de", Issuer "TeleSec ServerPass Class 2 CA" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 49dNvx6lngz4RCT for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2020 00:35:09 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd@edvax.de) Received: from r56.edvax.de ([178.5.236.150]) by mrelayeu.kundenserver.de (mreue109 [212.227.15.183]) with ESMTPA (Nemesis) id 1MVNEv-1jZgTP0Wj1-00SMeN; Fri, 05 Jun 2020 02:35:04 +0200 Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2020 02:35:03 +0200 From: Polytropon To: Brandon helsley Cc: freebsd-questions Subject: Re: Minimal skills Message-Id: <20200605023503.50311b56.freebsd@edvax.de> In-Reply-To: References: <20200604005859.ca438474.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604020051.0c02472d.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604074134.89eb6518.freebsd@edvax.de> <20200604225938.3baf5056ebd397f4a4acf81c@sohara.org> Reply-To: Polytropon Organization: EDVAX X-Mailer: Sylpheed 3.1.1 (GTK+ 2.24.5; i386-portbld-freebsd8.2) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:wbWqZR9fMFUkV3JQO30xVzgMN40DmkHsNNsmTLhApd5s8bfMWha +QvneNi9I139uTBKir7CLD2Lps/QwVnVZtdKkiqVazsifAGFEAfKSJ8DCO0EKeGY4a+WMEm rbfSYAzrxJ/pjrgJGnxmJ3iwF7sGR6JYpP+fxJKGxxQAR+7854WIpWV1gyiYvHCcHynDzex Md+ssZEnAmzUkzYjCrNRA== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:rjQqD4geJ1s=:oUc9eOsmLEPnBKWTX6i4el P4/BDfCcZSO9Uj8+yLahLgZ67xwOxb18vHWCsyyWrTIT6NrBJl2Ks+LyyVm/EdjK7yrXMFgO2 WVVxrKl00qZrpg1/S5q/pvwwvaWfuEvlOi6Qn7dLGf53QZmqVmds8ahJ9pZiTbvzw4/DTLk9M hA60h4ONuAIE8F4kdifO7pZ9l5t4J34s/WVvxAYMPXN41njbCmsmNHfuHZrgSK9FOvk6L3nek 1bnXQCz9e+cvUjB+8xqa0T1LvlGWhJtD9eiAIez5LrVxlpV9dRDqldhuG7QaBBz67PIZX1KfX M4vIE2DVsBb6iV6ciQrXppYhitKh9+Kl2XJJe1clLwp6Re9vjUvPxxA8JSPI46KK26R5u+mFl mh28Urz7nS1FJS0Mg3RES7i7keUMLhiCA4zD3TKN6q/sUAeGH7p3EHefOmXu5VEQn6Iu2a7sP 9pcVlUDfie3ppeaiyPWfGzSf8j++5nRPKSPgAoeBtvCrAYSyIqjfZuYTyJtX8Jw6h+4/rO0QC YctO3Nmq91bp8TDPUQ8XSXoEbOt42KBhooS1klzoSQ3twVUemrOJrTYTa8zpzu1e2SBzNlRhE OU7V8c1YV3ebofBQ6murKV9oM7NEYg8Cu6UlsdVo0Mf+UqrJq7RHJ095Lj1JYboUOnbZWffJX 5Mg+ZyBrKYamwmEgkX8KMzD5FOcIkCOIWd++ADv6JnACFG/EjxAHQTofxaL/Jm5+Bkg4FAv5W 4i2vJvqG7gWvqFM5UHZ8pLCNu2jLMKDMsX3MV3IWoaWrGiNOftDecFGv4OhOoZ7BmvogW6k2e 162/0U9EMxg+83IhzscY6kdlSo/zH/x9ZOYIgzB3SknN8tChW+PgU4Kp0wpaxE4S2bBqUiTmX VS0VsYzg2QvpQGcTBMaA== X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 49dNvx6lngz4RCT X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd@edvax.de has no SPF policy when checking 212.227.17.10) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd@edvax.de X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.97 / 15.00]; HAS_REPLYTO(0.00)[freebsd@edvax.de]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; MV_CASE(0.50)[]; HAS_ORG_HEADER(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.36)[-0.355]; RCPT_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; FREEMAIL_TO(0.00)[hotmail.com]; RECEIVED_SPAMHAUS_PBL(0.00)[178.5.236.150:received]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:8560, ipnet:212.227.0.0/16, country:DE]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.75)[-0.745]; REPLYTO_EQ_FROM(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.33)[-0.334]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[edvax.de]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; MID_CONTAINS_FROM(1.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[212.227.17.10:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[212.227.17.10:from]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2020 00:35:11 -0000 On Thu, 4 Jun 2020 18:07:57 -0600, Brandon helsley wrote: > I can configure thunderbird to cache mail in Maildir? I think it's the default already. Or did it use mbox? At the moment, I have no reference system at hand to check; I just know that Sylpheed uses MailDir locally. > Never heard of Maildir though. It's one of the two standard mail storage formats in use today. Here is a short and simplified comparison: mbox format: a message is - a portion of a file a mailbox is - a file an account is - a directory with files Example: ~/mail/inbox is a file that contains all messages received so far. MailDir format: a message is - a file a mailbox is - a directory with files an account is - a directory with directories Example: ~/mail/draft/4 is a file contains the 4th message template. Both have advantages and disadvantages. To the MUA, it doesn't actually matter - the visual representation is the same. You can find more information here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mbox https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maildir > My original plan was to have fetchmail and postfix and imap > program configured to work with mbox. mbox is just default > MUA though and I can replace it with thunderbird which is > MUA also. No, bmox is not a MUA, it's a concept of storing email messages (see above). However, Thunderbird can import from and export to mbox format, so there is compatibility. Try to get a better understanding of "what is what" and "what does what": fetchmail reads messages via POP3 or IMAP from your account, provided by and hosted at, say, "hotmail.com"; postfix is a mail server to route and deliver mails. Here you can find a nice summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetchmail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postfix_(software) > But if I want to use command line MUA like mutt do I still not > need these programs to poll mail? No, mutt has this already built in: it supports both mbox and Maildir, and it can access IMAP accounts without additional software. So you don't need anything else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutt_(email_client) > What is the difference between cacheing mail in Maildir vs using > mutt and polling mail however it is that you do so? Caching messages is optional, but useful: You can have a local copy of your messages (received and sent ones, templates and so on) without requiring an Internet connection - you only need it when you (a) receive new messages and (b) send out messages; for reading and editing, you can use the locally cached files. This is the exact opposite of, for example, a typical web mailer where you _always_ need an Internet connection _and_ it has to run the web browser. The idea if IMAP is that you can store your messages on the server, in your example, provided by "hotmail.com", and you can use your local installation to "remotely manipulate them". So even if you wipe your hard disk, your messages will still be on the server, and their attribues (read, not read) are also there. The IMAP-based MUA is just an interface to the IMAP server that handles your messages and which also takes care of when you send out messages, or messages are sent to you - nothing you need to do. In the past, before IMAP, it was common to read messages from the server and delete them from the server (!), often due to size limitations, using POP3. So your mailboxes would grow on your local machine, and you had to backup them. Note that fetchmail does support both IMAP and SMTP, and it can be used to "copy messages" (download, mark as read), and "move messages" (download, delete from server). > Thanks for the formatting of the message. To explain why my > messages are formatted this way, I'm trying to copy the > format of these messages by adding > wherever there is a > new paragraph and indentation. This is what your MUA should do. It's important that paragraphs, consisting of several lines, need a "> " (note the space!) for every line. This is nothing you should do manually. When you select "reply" in any halfway decent MUA, you get a composer window, with the original message prefixed with some hind of header ("On so and so, that person wrote:"), and a "> " infront of every line. A good MUA removes existing signatures after the "-- " delimiter (also note the space!), but it's no big deal to remove it yourself. Have a look at the messages in this thread so far to see the desired "design". ;-) > At first I thought this was all that proper bottom posting was. > Now I see that most MUA 's have automatic formating. I'll check > it out and see if I can enable these settings if they are not > already. Yes, definitely check your MUA's setting, maybe it's possible to configure it properly. Additionally, as you already have a FreeBSD machine, why not install mutt, setup your IMAP access credentials, and use that instead? It will be much easier. In general, bottom posting means: 1. Quote message parts properly that you reply to. 2. Remove anything you don't need. 3. Make sure it's easy to read: use newlines and indentation as needed. Again, the mailing list archives provide good examples of how this should be done. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...