From owner-freebsd-hackers@FreeBSD.ORG Mon Jun 7 14:48:10 2004 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.FreeBSD.org (mx1.freebsd.org [216.136.204.125]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6271916A4D2 for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:48:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from mail.gmx.net (pop.gmx.net [213.165.64.20]) by mx1.FreeBSD.org (Postfix) with SMTP id A7C1443D1D for ; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 14:48:09 +0000 (GMT) (envelope-from tmoestl@gmx.net) Received: (qmail 26186 invoked by uid 65534); 7 Jun 2004 14:48:05 -0000 Received: from p50907740.dip.t-dialin.net (EHLO timesink.dyndns.org) (80.144.119.64) by mail.gmx.net (mp025) with SMTP; 07 Jun 2004 16:48:05 +0200 X-Authenticated: #5374206 Received: by raven (Postfix, from userid 1001) id AFFFEBC; Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:48:04 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:48:04 +0200 From: Thomas Moestl To: Kris Kennaway Message-ID: <20040607144804.GA1594@timesink.dyndns.org> References: <40C36D31.4010003@freebsd.org> <20040606193510.GA95886@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <40C37F3C.1050602@freebsd.org> <20040606211249.GC96607@dhcp50.pn.xcllnt.net> <20040606214228.GA44280@freebie.xs4all.nl> <40C39159.1030102@freebsd.org> <20040606215921.GA96205@xor.obsecurity.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20040606215921.GA96205@xor.obsecurity.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.6i cc: hackers@freebsd.org cc: current@freebsd.org cc: peter@freebsd.org Subject: Re: HEADS UP! KSE needs more attention X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 07 Jun 2004 14:48:10 -0000 On Sun, 2004/06/06 at 14:59:21 -0700, Kris Kennaway wrote: > On Sun, Jun 06, 2004 at 03:49:13PM -0600, Scott Long wrote: > > amd64 is approaching critical mass for tier-1. There are a number of > > developers that own amd64 hardware now, and a number of users who are > > asking about it on the mailing lists. Peter is finishing up the last > > blocking item for it (kld's) not including the observed KSE problems. > > It's very close and I _will_ hold up the release for it to get done. > > amd64 is the future of commodity computing and we aren't going to > > ignore it for 5-STABLE. > > amd64 has a bug with swapping - when something begins to access swap, > the entire system becomes almost entirely unresponsive (e.g. no mouse > response for up to 10 seconds) until it stops. Peter has some ideas > about it, but it's a serious enough bug that it forced me to stop > using amd64 as my desktop machine (hello, kde!). Hmmm, I have encountered a similar problem on sparc64 once; the reason was that vm_pageout_map_deactivate_pages() calls pmap_remove() for the range from the start to the end of the process's vm_map when a process is swapped out. Start and end are VM_MIN_ADDRESS and VM_MAXUSER_ADDRESS respectively, and on 64-bit architectures, that range is very large (128TB on ia64 if I'm not mistaken), so the iteration in pmap_remove() must be carefully designed to make as large steps as possible to avoid long run times (or to not iterate over the range at all if it becomes too large, which we did on sparc64). It seems that the amd64 version of pmap_remove() will essentially always iterate in 2MB (level 2 page table) steps, regardless of whether there is mapping for the respective level 2 table in the table levels above; that means that in the previously mentioned case, the outer loop will usually run for about 67 million iterations (the resident count guard may not be of much use here if a stack page is left at the very end of the address space). Since there are a few memory accesses needed in each iterations, that may already be the cause of such a delay. I have no hardware to test this, so all of the above is just a wild- assed guess; but maybe it is of use (and sorry for the spam if it is not). - Thomas -- Thomas Moestl http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0015675/ http://people.FreeBSD.org/~tmm/ "I realized that the purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity." -- Calvin and Hobbes