From owner-freebsd-advocacy@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Jan 14 02:41:05 2015 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3F37D0C for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 02:41:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from mail-qa0-x236.google.com (mail-qa0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c00::236]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6815421F for ; Wed, 14 Jan 2015 02:41:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-qa0-f54.google.com with SMTP id w8so4107669qac.13 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 2015 18:41:04 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=VTjQ26fEBY+Fm92qbCLCOf69yf6pvzEnk3REkhx8w8c=; b=ymJpW1Lx9Huau4nipmiQxHH/JBTPUCYdFAc2HkpN2AENJ7xzyUv4stanRw/iQ/S1Aj QCQqnXYsHhClUu+9HUe5VZfzzjymfZzPyaW14CfEKzruz6T/uGDV54JMrDufcg5K72m2 FVRJxeJx19CbUAQ15KcisthXb+EdBwzV2aqGc1k3qTHua07Mr77PjpTc+2diXOWKFChN YobH2fzwv4/EX/oxOtcikST6mbAk2ZCCeCaxjkLoDgwD0AzOKBqhaqEgz0h/Bp/LcnY1 T9kpO2xfDfjhYSCQdsYSpyuNfTS3QSHB3gjHRxxiNU5RFrrqRlre/UrxSC3uaBHfrY3x UBAw== X-Received: by 10.224.137.65 with SMTP id v1mr2713817qat.95.1421203264606; Tue, 13 Jan 2015 18:41:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.77.77.30] (c-24-2-112-131.hsd1.pa.comcast.net. [24.2.112.131]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id r9sm19418526qak.2.2015.01.13.18.41.04 (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 13 Jan 2015 18:41:04 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: Re: projects to better support FreeBSD sysadmins From: Joshua Smith X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (12B440) In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 21:41:03 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: Royce Williams Cc: "freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org" X-BeenThere: freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18-1 Precedence: list List-Id: FreeBSD Evangelism List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2015 02:41:05 -0000 > On Jan 13, 2015, at 6:14 PM, Royce Williams wrote: >=20 > At Craig Rodrigues' request, I'm starting a new thread here branched > from a freebsd-ports@ thread. For those who want more context, the > original thread starts here: >=20 > https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-ports/2015-January/097462.html= >=20 > It was initially about BIND REPLACE_BASE, but branched off into > general sysadmin concerns that Craig wanted to respond to. >=20 > Royce >=20 > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Royce Williams > Date: Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 7:10 AM > Subject: Re: BIND REPLACE_BASE option > To: ports > Cc: Deb Goodkin >=20 > On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 4:08 AM, Kurt Jaeger wrote: >=20 >>> No disputing that, just thinking, is FreeBSD being driven by user need, >>> financial contributer need, developer need, security need, making things= >>> 'better' or just by people wanting to make their mark in a warped sense >>> of "it'll all get better"...? >>=20 >> Probably by developer *capacity* (not need) and fire-fighting, >> like most IT stuff 8-( >=20 > But like most IT stuff, resources are being asymmetrically applied to > the root causes of the fires. >=20 > Read the list of projects from last quarter: >=20 > - Address Space Layout Randomization (ASLR) I would hardly consider this esoteric.=20 > - amd64 Xen Paravirtualization > - bhyve The ability for FreeBSD to host VMs is definitely something that I find very= interesting and useful. I am a sysadmin.=20 > - Chelsio iSCSI Offload Support > - Debian GNU/kFreeBSD > - FreeBSD Preseed Installation (PXE) This also fits right in the making a sysadmin a life easier wheel house.=20 > - Jenkins Continuous Integration for FreeBSD > - New Automounter An auto mounter that behaves more like what is in other unixes also improves= my life as a sysadmin.=20 > - QEMU bsd-user-Enabled Ports Building > - VMWare VAAI and Microsoft ODX Acceleration in CTL Not really sysadmin focused but definitely not esoteric.=20 > - ZFSguru > - Intel GPU Driver Update > - SDIO Driver > - UEFI Boot Like it or not UEFI is the future supporting it well is not optional.=20 > - Updated vt(4) System Console > - Updating OpenCrypto > - FreeBSD on Newer ARM Boards > - FreeBSD/arm64 > - LLDB Debugger Port > - LLVM Address Sanitizer (Asan) > - SSE Variants of libc Routines for amd64 > - FreeBSD Python Ports > - GNOME/FreeBSD > - KDE on FreeBSD > - The Graphics Stack on FreeBSD > - Xfce >=20 > The Foundation section also lists these items not overlapping with the abo= ve: >=20 > - FreeBSD Journal > - PostgreSQL performance improvements > - Ongoing release process > - Development snapshots A better release process will likely benefit me as a sysadmin.=20 > - VM images for releases Being able to boot the base system on the hyper visor of my choice with out h= aving to muddle through the installer is a huge time saver and a bandit of s= ysadmin a everywhere.=20 > - Secure Boot planning > - Infrastructure hardware > - Java licensing > - Summits and summit sponsorship > - Travel grants, tutorials, and talks > - New Design and Implementation book > - Recruitment flyers >=20 > Are there long-term improvement projects that aren't being listed? If > so, they should be. These are just projects sponsored by the foundation. I'm sure there are many= other developments occurring throughout the project that are not listed her= e because they are not sponsored by the foundation.=20 >=20 > At face value, the main project list is heavily weighted towards > relatively esoteric OS features. See my other comments above. Frankly this is a bullshit statement.=20 > The Foundation list is heavily > weighted towards advocacy and communication (as it should be). >=20 > What is missing are high-level projects to help sysadmins maintain and > use FreeBSD on an ongoing basis. >=20 > Here are some projects that would help to close the sysadmin gap: >=20 > - Automatic error reporting and analysis A crash reporting mechanism already exists.=20 > - OS and port debugging tools for sysadmins > - Independent project-wide usability analysis What does this mean? If you run into a usability or any other sort of proble= m. Submit a PR.=20 > - Ports dependency isolation and reduction framework Doesn't seem like a sysadmin type thing to me.=20 > - Ports system reliability parity with Linuxes Can you provide more details and expand upon this? > - Searchable, taggable project FAQ Any number of the projects above are far more beneficial to sysadmin a every= where than this.=20 > - Searchable hardware support matrix integrated with bug tracker +1 for this.=20 > - Wiki curation and platform improvements >=20 > These projects decentralize and improve support for sysadmins and new > adopters. As a business case for the Foundation, these projects > should also deeply free up developer resources to focus on other major > projects. >=20 > In the past, when I have pointed out this "sysadmin gap", I receive > one of two answers: >=20 > 1. Sounds great. Let us know when you have it finished. Perhaps just getting started with something would entice support.=20 >=20 > 2. We're too busy to do any of those things. >=20 > ... to which I answer: >=20 > 1. These projects require technical skill and political capital within > the project. They are ideally suited for well-established independent > FreeBSD consultants with large blocks of time sponsored by the FreeBSD > Foundation. I can help (especially with the wiki work), but cannot > tackle these deeper problems in the way that others can. >=20 > 2. The reason you're busy is that you don't have these things. >=20 > I applaud recent work on Jenkins and cluster infrastructure. I also > appreciate Colin Percival's automated error reporting work, because > it directly attacks the sysadmin gap. And I know that getting > releases out the door is time-consuming and keeps the lights on. >=20 > But the overall project list needed to be rebalanced towards system > administration. I request that the Foundation consider this when > calling for proposals for the next round of funded projects. >=20 > Royce > _______________________________________________ > freebsd-advocacy@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-advocacy > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-advocacy-unsubscribe@freebsd.org= "