From owner-freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Sat Oct 7 19:14:22 2017 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D01CE3FB4D; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 19:14:22 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: from mail-oi0-f48.google.com (mail-oi0-f48.google.com [209.85.218.48]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "Google Internet Authority G2" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 53ED8C1; Sat, 7 Oct 2017 19:14:20 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kmacybsd@gmail.com) Received: by mail-oi0-f48.google.com with SMTP id v9so22021799oif.13; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 12:14:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=MPvoRjzDkrOh2gqECtCvXqOOStP/7S1Sn/8xaXvdRgs=; b=Ig16zcY4uyxJ+l5st/1V/Hmbh/bZIPlluQVOxcT9LQTEW8FQiBqF5LMfXxyqvcvPu5 F8Cd9Rum+7pjK2pCO1fTIRCr//BgOOmJY+pbjErQBsnbCEDiEttXlt5TZKvrhJoGj11q 8w9Q0DwtPenxUClVKf0Nonm9XWpPo9nyOCxcnbQQD9M+i1THkMKFNXh2wPs8FUJsLt5j nKBUN0qPZ1RaDnNKZ5YWWYq9KjPGzs2jwpq21SmprSWC/sQHPpb+zS4PUZ6OAfn1Dp8t fZF17UjXsYiqBDbITzeM492Gjtnd60+L0y8UXvHxv5Uq8HiQTkIMA0supx8tkZWXSzk4 MwWw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaU4YBNOyB+o8pXFiplkbPOYZUTbbCZ85cgQVQhh5U5JmYwXSrEX qxAx7m4UjAhnvdf+OwRh8BHmscmHkc7dOC2f3wo= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDjzDYGo4YmoL4skBKyuyFw0IL5Gsz8SNYKpBKctOzlRc+2Kxk//H0O28njfvHr3anOVdTvujXIbIZpRbOq7u0= X-Received: by 10.157.4.37 with SMTP id 34mr3829440otc.156.1507403199627; Sat, 07 Oct 2017 12:06:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20171005234149.GE8557@spindle.one-eyed-alien.net> <59D6CA6C.1040502@Wilcox-Tech.com> <20171007174124.GA20810@lonesome.com> In-Reply-To: <20171007174124.GA20810@lonesome.com> From: "K. Macy" Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 19:06:29 +0000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: future of sparc64 (was: Making C++11 a hard requirement for FreeBSD) To: "A. Wilcox" , Mark Linimon Cc: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org, freebsd-sparc64@freebsd.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.23 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2017 19:14:22 -0000 On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 10:41 Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Oct 05, 2017 at 07:12:28PM -0500, A. Wilcox wrote: > > That doesn't change the fact that sparc64 still exists, and with Oracle > > laying off Solaris as well, FreeBSD becomes a "way out" for people > > heavily invested (DC full of sparc64 gear, or such). > > I have thought for some time that we've been a "way out" for Solaris > sites wanting to keep ZFS and not deal with licensing issues, and have > worked to keep sparc64 alive. (AFAIK FreeBSD is the only open source > sparc64/zfs solution?) > > But here's the current problem. > > All gccs > 4.9 fail to build. Looking at the logs AFAICT the failure > is a floating-point exception as soon as the first built binary is run > during the internal testing. > > Neither Marcel nor Gerald nor I have any insight on how to fix this. > Gerald does state that those gccs build on other OSes, so this is almost > certainly a FreBSD problem. > > The default ports compiler has recently moved to gcc5 and then again > to gcc6. The only reason gcc49 still exists in the Ports Collection is > specifically for sparc64 ports. > > Recent llvms do not build. I have no insight into that failure, either. > > So, the long and short is, even with using gcc4.2.1 as an external > compiler, over time, fewer and fewer ports build as they adapt to the > newer compilers. > > This is something I don't have the cycles to fix. Unless someone else > can step up and fix the compilers, we're close to the end of feasibility. > > In the meantime, I'll keep running package builds with gcc4.9 as long as > it produces some kind of useful results. My recollection of sparc64 from sun4v work was that unsupported operations would trap in to the kernel which would in turn trap in to a user space handler for floating point emulation. If someone wants to fix it that=E2=80= =99s where to look. I think that FreeBSD needs to always have one big-endian arch and one arch that requires IOMMU. Bonus points if it fulfills both. For a time that was sparc64. These days other arches meet that need. And at this point the most recent hardware supported by the sparc64 port shipped in ~2003. One could amortize the cost of a low end 2017 server in just the power bill within a year. I don=E2=80=99t know how much work continuing to = maintain sparc64 really adds to non sparc64 enthusiasts. Nonetheless, it is non-zero= . -M