Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 19:06:44 +0000 From: jane.coppleman@gsuitebox.com To: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org Subject: Cloud Storage Users Email List Message-ID: <f40304361c286480e905598f8fbb@google.com>
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Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B7DE8E0F9E1 for <freebsd-stable@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org>; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:05:44 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=0436a04fd1=ari@ish.com.au) Received: from fish.ish.com.au (ip-2.ish.com.au [203.29.62.2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7EED872FA6 for <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:05:43 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from prvs=0436a04fd1=ari@ish.com.au) Received: from [10.242.2.2] (port=59088 helo=MacBook-Pro.local) by fish.ish.com.au with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82_1-5b7a7c0-XX) (envelope-from <ari@ish.com.au>) id 1duSWH-0006Ah-2t; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:05:38 +1000 X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A150202.59C1B0D2.0059, ss=1, re=0.000, recu=0.000, reip=0.000, cl=1, cld=1, fgs=0 Subject: Re: ABI changes within stable branch To: "Patrick M. Hausen" <hausen@punkt.de> Cc: Kurt Jaeger <lists@opsec.eu>, freebsd-stable <freebsd-stable@freebsd.org>, matthew@FreeBSD.org References: <1b07bf49-508a-c6b4-e805-df7d43230f81@ish.com.au> <20170919081532.GB2170@home.opsec.eu> <21c1d954-8bdf-0d16-f1ca-176cd6df7a60@ish.com.au> <DA4D8888-995B-418B-ACA8-7F600FA43A7C@punkt.de> From: Aristedes Maniatis <ari@ish.com.au> Message-ID: <423b38b0-18d8-4252-d2b8-f25f2141e3bb@ish.com.au> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:05:36 +1000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:56.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/56.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <DA4D8888-995B-418B-ACA8-7F600FA43A7C@punkt.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Language: en-AU Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: freebsd-stable@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: Production branch of FreeBSD source code <freebsd-stable.freebsd.org> List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/options/freebsd-stable>, <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=unsubscribe> List-Archive: <http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/>; List-Post: <mailto:freebsd-stable@freebsd.org> List-Help: <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=help> List-Subscribe: <https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable>, <mailto:freebsd-stable-request@freebsd.org?subject=subscribe> X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:05:44 -0000 Matthew Seaman wrote: > > Ports are still being built according to the same policy -- on the > earliest still-supported release of each major branch. > > It's just that now, for 11.x and subsequent, 11.0 goes out of support a > month or so after 11.1-RELEASE comes out. You're meant to have upgraded > by now. The 11.0 -> 11.1 upgrade is intended to be a pretty routine > thing that you can do about as freely as you can apply a security patch > or other update within the 11.0 series. I'm afraid this hasn't made things clearer for me at all. 1. What does the "stable" branch mean if the ABI is no longer stable 2. This policy of changing the ABI means that upgrading from 11.0 to 11.1 is now less routine than it used to be in the old days. Each minor update is more like the effort involved in upgrading 10 -> 11. So I'll be doing it less often, not more often. 3. Packages are located in a namespace like this: https://pkg.freebsd.org/freebsd:11:x86:64 But now I don't know which release this is actually pointing to or which packages will work. 4. /etc/pkg/repos/FreeBSD.conf points to url: "pkg+http://pkg.FreeBSD.org/${ABI}/quarterly" However this is now wrong. If I am delayed in upgrading my system, downloading packages from there will sometimes break things. And I will not know until runtime. 5. The package MANIFEST contains information about system compatibility. That is just the major version, but we need the minor release version now too. Here are some possible solutions from where I'm sitting on the edges: a. Go back to 'stable' meaning the ABI doesn't change. Not just the kernel, but the whole OS. b. Since there is no different in breakage and effort when going from 11.0 -> 11.1 or when going from 11.0 -> 12.0, just get rid of the point releases entirely. Then the existing packaging system still works. c. Add point releases to the package manifest. We've have something like https://pkg.freebsd.org/freebsd:11.0:x86:64 d. Wait for some new base packaging magic to solve things. Have I summarised this effectively? Ari -- --------------------------> Aristedes Maniatis CEO, ish https://www.ish.com.au GPG fingerprint CBFB 84B4 738D 4E87 5E5C 5EFA EF6A 7D2E 3E49 102A
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