From owner-svn-src-all@FreeBSD.ORG Wed Nov 6 00:15:07 2013 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-all@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [8.8.178.115]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A409F59E for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2013 00:15:07 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from peter@wemm.org) Received: from mail-pb0-x22d.google.com (mail-pb0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7285921B7 for ; Wed, 6 Nov 2013 00:15:07 +0000 (UTC) Received: by mail-pb0-f45.google.com with SMTP id ma3so8190706pbc.18 for ; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:15:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=wemm.org; s=google; h=message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to:cc:subject :references:in-reply-to:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0DIIApSiimuxGhYMaceCoxjVNskqoHw0EMjw0QEsvgU=; b=YQTROaGc9iIp0KaQfToGA25avdLP8xFhXRuge2zQO/3MC8plhELuvz+jMHbf5nzJ7z 1tJOnx2Y3KGaUUoHDdFLFZ4z9B3VZCgMdqvIynEk+0lSsuzD61NNkVFTneUkfUJVO3SR CgFgr3c7EVoOqsmow06U3xt5dVvH5MLMDCkYE= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=0DIIApSiimuxGhYMaceCoxjVNskqoHw0EMjw0QEsvgU=; b=CpHiqFkLjYZ3OfRu1dVntwTpQD3luY6bic+UvrbIkqkI1lCbSKR2LbmOy3v9ht/gWU Jb7EnFNdRdxIRlkTUPZGBNrme+OzpuDdg7MC0ZHrwTMrcRX7+egctaRx0v8ECPaUwEIN kR5kd1KTtCvcUc/HylovhMqG4XHo2LzWS1tpO0RUGPM+PsI+c2jWJfGIUjlqk3w9EcKq nc5ieUefukNxH2QS9kJsZnWlssPSRPmjP47j8q6VL+7AvxQDUAFWVYpbUG3YKUUDr/JC EySAUo2Bcve1hJO7dGLkvFU0syudCEddh9W2WCLe2WFj2eoJ+AzKPh6difW8JI4pFwod SFFA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQlYflL8lwAxghNd7m+Guydols18fkHMc1jynPV6xEkuQShHIfV3b4ueno3l3IfRQWudQppn X-Received: by 10.68.143.231 with SMTP id sh7mr273393pbb.35.1383696906572; Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:15:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from hater-dm.corp.yahoo.com (nat-dip4.cfw-a-gci.corp.yahoo.com. [209.131.62.113]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id ye1sm43368912pab.19.2013.11.05.16.15.05 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:15:05 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <52798A09.5020303@wemm.org> Date: Tue, 05 Nov 2013 16:15:05 -0800 From: Peter Wemm User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.9; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John Baldwin , Gleb Smirnoff Subject: Re: svn commit: r257696 - in head: libexec/rbootd share/man/man9 sys/compat/svr4 sys/net sys/sys References: <201311051029.rA5ATmmM017799@svn.freebsd.org> <201311051447.52382.jhb@freebsd.org> <20131105204217.GK7577@FreeBSD.org> <201311051718.26356.jhb@freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: <201311051718.26356.jhb@freebsd.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: svn-src-head@freebsd.org, svn-src-all@freebsd.org, src-committers@freebsd.org X-BeenThere: svn-src-all@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "SVN commit messages for the entire src tree \(except for " user" and " projects" \)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Nov 2013 00:15:07 -0000 On 11/5/13, 2:18 PM, John Baldwin wrote: > On Tuesday, November 05, 2013 3:42:17 pm Gleb Smirnoff wrote: >> John, >> >> On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 02:47:52PM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: >> J> On Tuesday, November 05, 2013 2:29:04 pm Gleb Smirnoff wrote: >> J> > On Tue, Nov 05, 2013 at 11:56:09AM -0500, John Baldwin wrote: >> J> > J> On Tuesday, November 05, 2013 5:29:48 am Gleb Smirnoff wrote: >> J> > J> > Author: glebius >> J> > J> > Date: Tue Nov 5 10:29:47 2013 >> J> > J> > New Revision: 257696 >> J> > J> > URL: http://svnweb.freebsd.org/changeset/base/257696 >> J> > J> > >> J> > J> > Log: >> J> > J> > Drop support for historic ioctls and also undefine them, so that code >> J> > J> > that checks their presence via ifdef, won't use them. >> J> > J> >> J> > J> Most of these are COMPAT_43, but one appears to be a 9.x ioctl? If that's the >> J> > J> case it's implementation should probably stick around under appropriate >> J> > J> COMPAT_FREEBSD macros. It looks like it goes all the way back to 4.4BSD, >> J> > J> so at least COMPAT_FREEBSD4 and later should define the implementation to >> J> > J> preserve ABI compat for old binaries. >> J> > >> J> > Why should we support such broken configurations as running new kernel and >> J> > ancient core base system utilities? The efforts to keep this are much more >> J> > expensive, then yields. >> J> >> J> Is this ioctl only ever used by ifconfig and not suitable for public consumption? >> J> If so, then I think removing it is fine. However, it's not clear that this is >> J> the case from the commit, and it's good to make sure it is really the case. >> J> >> J> It might be nice to hide ioctls we think are internal under some #ifdef that tools >> J> like ifconfig #define to expose them so we are more explicit about which ioctls >> J> are purely internal, etc. >> >> Well, it isn't hidden and actually some applications as zebra/quagga can use it. >> >> On previous hacking session at this area, 2 years ago, I noticed that zebra/quagga >> do use SIOCAIFADDR and it actually does better at filling sockaddrs than our >> ifconfig :) >> >> I am pretty sure that no closed source, but available to wide public, application >> that configures addresses in FreeBSD kernel exist. >> >> In case of open source applications, like zebra/quagga, supporting one major >> release behind should be enough. > Mmmm, people run older versions of binaries (even open source ones) on newer OS's > perhaps more often than you think. The COMPAT_43 stuff can be dropped certainly, > but people will almost certainly do rolling upgrades where they upgrade the OS > on their machines before they upgrade their packages. > This change is actually even worse than it appears. One of the key features that was removed was the workaround for code that doesn't know about sockaddr.sa_len. eg: /usr/sbin/traceroute after the change: # traceroute www.freebsd.org traceroute: ifaddrlist: SIOCGIFADDR: bge0: Can't assign requested address Hint: linux doesn't have a sa_len, so code that originates on Linux will no longer work. The code glebius removed used to work around this. This is not old binaries, this is binaries compiled *today*. -Peter