From owner-svn-src-head@freebsd.org Wed Sep 23 03:02:36 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: svn-src-head@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 51C693EAD4A for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:02:36 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: from mail-qv1-xf32.google.com (mail-qv1-xf32.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::f32]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) server-digest SHA256 client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4Bx2zH21Q4z49xw for ; Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:02:35 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from wlosh@bsdimp.com) Received: by mail-qv1-xf32.google.com with SMTP id cr8so10662176qvb.10 for ; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 20:02:35 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=9E7qrpJUtIxmBvLDwAj5V1HBAxzr0O6z9ge/5zIMBMM=; b=kNBQRbPh/ZfiXgdmQfCvXVX7UTzYr59REl3YjSNpibGdzh2KqziBguvl6RoR5Gm5/v 3946XI5zQQdfoRhV71Hg2ucl9i38FegGAJ8YDpJGrfc/E4JGgwIUokBBixIzmf1SgO2S pQ2D4or/BXr4e/DO8FTFffwA55ToIiFV89kg+cPH/HrHpDjEmAs217BTVn+aTRQmgp7r lDP9RfYp7iEtEX7ZaePNZGuPWx3u1T98DhdijRejM0wLhVYpgW9LRaQtpeJNz1YRzR/g 3zC20KJsAHc33OIFXy0NOOOj658TjW2uShVesHOMhC0VkGpnJJb5/0adsauDzEoyDiHN VqAw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=9E7qrpJUtIxmBvLDwAj5V1HBAxzr0O6z9ge/5zIMBMM=; b=VtprAW25YplQrQF1wO/mz5VQHgmTUfJva9O3xMxieY0WkFYrKY68I3NmIfD4EUs6C+ vlzbRLdTaRmfNutMc/Co8/rQmgnsKUQ3vc7jnOlFKItJsUJBCigxedJhKPEdNU64iiHs XfNGU4JhFchevnTZzk6pKMjUGu8e8NTRe7QxYEv/Lqy9BUON6owxaHMWHMgu2IkF6l91 rvRvydODSHoV2LutEglh6UiZx4K66wZomgT9E90U6AF0C+t8xUFPGhNjQb/K8S79Qzt5 aH/hggXQfmqJNXKDcs2BSjCBfUnUw2c6hd1Fx92pLTaOIXBlSeSvxqlqdAlfa8YVZpdd nqSg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533L8IBLMZc0rniy6t716FwbULUrY2QMNwl1XkamNuZHQsfaua6w Kp3s+mcKOmyV9P8oMwzYGTeLknkVhwG9sWfFm6pIwA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyCst+BlsVjTTiyPmbJrq1v5P/ucNENuszo3tQ8DMAMh2CxKS+p2/7o6U05cXo3dtcdNA48YQ7ZdkCEGdhMhU4= X-Received: by 2002:ad4:47cc:: with SMTP id p12mr9019402qvw.26.1600830153984; Tue, 22 Sep 2020 20:02:33 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202009112049.08BKnavL032212@repo.freebsd.org> In-Reply-To: From: Warner Losh Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2020 21:02:22 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: svn commit: r365643 - head/bin/cp To: Alan Somers Cc: Kyle Evans , Ian Lepore , Mateusz Guzik , src-committers , svn-src-all , svn-src-head X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 4Bx2zH21Q4z49xw X-Spamd-Bar: - Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=pass header.d=bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com header.s=20150623 header.b=kNBQRbPh; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of wlosh@bsdimp.com has no SPF policy when checking 2607:f8b0:4864:20::f32) smtp.mailfrom=wlosh@bsdimp.com X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-1.75 / 15.00]; RCVD_TLS_ALL(0.00)[]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(-0.20)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:s=20150623]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.88)[-0.877]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; FREEMAIL_CC(0.00)[freebsd.org,gmail.com]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.95)[-0.947]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[multipart/alternative,text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[svn-src-head@freebsd.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[bsdimp.com]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.07)[0.071]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[bsdimp-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com:+]; RCPT_COUNT_SEVEN(0.00)[7]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[2607:f8b0:4864:20::f32:from]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[no SPF record]; FORGED_SENDER(0.30)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+,1:+,2:~]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; ASN(0.00)[asn:15169, ipnet:2607:f8b0::/32, country:US]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[imp@bsdimp.com,wlosh@bsdimp.com]; MAILMAN_DEST(0.00)[svn-src-head] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.33 X-BeenThere: svn-src-head@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.33 Precedence: list List-Id: SVN commit messages for the src tree for head/-current List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2020 03:02:36 -0000 I already committed... There's no need for a special upgrade process... Warner On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 8:59 PM Alan Somers wrote: > Go ahead and commit. Consider it reviewed by me. And if I understand > correctly, this commit means there's no need for a special updating > procedure, right? > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 6:55 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 5:17 PM Kyle Evans wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020, 17:02 Warner Losh wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 3:55 PM Kyle Evans wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 4:53 PM Ian Lepore wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tue, 2020-09-22 at 15:50 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: >>>>> > > I think it's a great leap sideways, but I've done cp /dev/null foo >>>>> to >>>>> > > clear >>>>> > > it out for 35 years now... It's why it feels like a workaround. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Though it is a legit optimization, no matter the feelings. As for >>>>> > > clearer, >>>>> > > I'm less sure since then I have to remember what the : operator >>>>> does. >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Warner >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> > For me, :> is idiomatic (but ugly). >>>>> > >>>>> > On the other hand, the cp /dev/null had a nice dogfooding aspect to >>>>> > it... when we broke cp by accident, its use in the build system was >>>>> the >>>>> > first alarm to go off. >>>>> > >>>>> > --Ian >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> To be honest, this is a case that really should be covered by >>>>> regression tests somewhere. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It should (but isn't yet). >>>> >>>> Ian is right for old-school FreeBSD thinking. In that thinking the >>>> build system should use an eclectic mix of tools to act as a fire-wall >>>> against accidental breakage. >>>> >>>> Complete, effective, test suites give much better coverage... if they >>>> are run... >>>> >>>> So until we run tests frequently, with loud regression squawking that's >>>> as effective as build breakage, I tend to fall in the 'all of the above' >>>> camp until that's in place... :) >>>> >>>> Warner >>>> >>>> P.S. though not, if I suppose, if it means that we're slowing down the >>>> regression coverage uptake... >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> The test build was fine, please confirm if I can commit it or if someone >>> else would like to write the UPDATING notice or start bootstrapping cp on >>> systems that were affected. I'm not comfortable with not taking any path at >>> all here, but this is a lot of friction for a small mechanical change to >>> ease the pain. >>> >> >> Sorry if I wasn't clear: I'm not objecting to the quick mechanical change >> so much as complaining that I wish we had better test coverage. Don't let >> that stop you from doing what's right (or I can if you'd like). >> >> Warner >> >