From owner-freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org Thu May 16 03:23:56 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D51F15AB54E for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:56 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: from mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (mailman.ysv.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:1900:2254:206a::50:5]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F5D868BA for ; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) id 642E815AB54C; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:55 +0000 (UTC) Delivered-To: hackers@mailman.ysv.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.ysv.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 415B815AB54B; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:55 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: from mail-qt1-x831.google.com (mail-qt1-x831.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::831]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) server-signature RSA-PSS (4096 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-digest SHA256) (Client CN "smtp.gmail.com", Issuer "GTS CA 1O1" (verified OK)) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D87C7868B8; Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:54 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from matt.garber@gmail.com) Received: by mail-qt1-x831.google.com with SMTP id o7so2302467qtp.4; Wed, 15 May 2019 20:23:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=eosGjJKUvnWD7Y4dtTPgAVwkCwzhMAQ9n0cCm1YYzio=; b=FOKT7hVAYUBelQEYP2zQpREIpiHIoqj2INWhhiYxRSAPPLQ37X2BouMjx50mlAl1Po uEBaO6pgyJuvsCzOuuADp0nbQMAGH5veF/Ougc81mMMh36kiJcf48jnzk9s4coviZ5vM Ww8ZkyXT7tYNPp/1iYFijOeq+yjv7G6CaAUPxlQhH0P9Iiqey5Ct1Z8xXe0qA+dD5wLJ dXYCLcFmUPpx8BazK2CSxIf2rkRJmIes/HoxwnErPck6Kulw5TjKfQC6icNKp/mTbJdq kI6jXhOPzbgHPxMv2E9g2I3uYLK/k8qVslsLAv6JfK4grlxYSf3YFwjTjx9EHjetq9zr XpHw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=eosGjJKUvnWD7Y4dtTPgAVwkCwzhMAQ9n0cCm1YYzio=; b=Ew894k/t0nET1BRaoVVEWK/CR31dR+T2rZJak8nCCvpl/hzy0Q8DCjaFFjeS6m0866 g+y4MECZtA8NsnGZxlMJtNC4F48HPa/4dNtn2GDdBaXhml+t/elc1dp/B6vZpuhP+r+G +j0RhX1/Z+li5g90W088plMG4IDeStqp/qmtU+z+tqRuFfU7BERFRne0o0zAmtqagA3P tXf26NKYOb+4MajMxcsGd33xi+1lexRMVQMbN581+vfd+xFLWhV9CZHlLPqgPao/DzVV GrFNmfzzR4X5x+8quzzND3jhh+BVjCKRUnVbDQ/zGbTCjFHEiZj8no1O/DwG1nMRlrBb IyXw== X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXPukhvtXN1v4WyUF1eghdxlpEypVBswxOc8SnvIa77LPzEVt4p YymZRJT/0R+uPCahvP5P2tVVV/ACF1FCBhc1zG4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqy4R2UuQaN+6HyLOvZGi2viBg/oQ2062FCIZpiDx0WAk96GobmB5OGkZFcJdBN0cwVxpN0VkLHLbdzXcnKx4jQ= X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4a14:: with SMTP id x20mr39849953qtq.233.1557977034547; Wed, 15 May 2019 20:23:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <201905151425.x4FEPNqk065975@fire.js.berklix.net> In-Reply-To: From: Matt Garber Date: Wed, 15 May 2019 23:23:39 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: FreeBSD flood of 8 breakage announcements in 3 mins. To: Bill Sorenson Cc: "Julian H. Stacey" , Mel Pilgrim , core@freebsd.org, hackers@freebsd.org, stable@freebsd.org X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: D87C7868B8 X-Spamd-Bar: ------ Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org X-Spamd-Result: default: False [-6.97 / 15.00]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-1.00)[-0.999,0]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-1.00)[-1.000,0]; REPLY(-4.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_SHORT(-0.97)[-0.971,0]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[] X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 16 May 2019 10:44:30 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.29 X-BeenThere: freebsd-hackers@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Technical Discussions relating to FreeBSD List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 16 May 2019 03:23:56 -0000 On Wed, May 15, 2019 at 11:15 PM Bill Sorenson wrote: > > I=E2=80=99m not sure what you meant about Linux distros not categorizin= g fixes, > though =E2=80=94 with some notable exceptions, most of the big ones certa= inly tag > security fixes >separately, which is what allows `unattended-upgrades` on > Debian/Ubuntu based systems (and `yum-cron` on RHEL) to work so nicely > automatically as scheduled on > *only* security errata, while leaving all > other types of updates alone for admin intervention. > > My comment about Linux was not in regards to any particular distro, they > all > have interesting policies of varying effectiveness when it comes to relea= se > engineering, but specifically about the Linux kernel team (Torvalds Et al= ,) > which last I checked had a policy of specifically not handling security > issues > any different from any generic bug. Distros may do their own kernel relea= se > engineering and handling that themselves which is fine. Understood, yep, that historical stance in the kernel itself has really sucked and does no one any favors with =E2=80=98everything is just a bug.= =E2=80=99 Thankfully the kernel self-protection project has made some significant strides in that area, even if the overall security attitude of maintainers has been slower to positive change than would be ideal. =E2=80=94 Matt