From owner-freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org Sun Apr 12 11:43:13 2020 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-pkgbase@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9F5CF2BB184 for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:43:13 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (br1.CN84in.dnsmgr.net [69.59.192.140]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 490VHg6z0hz41mk for ; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:43:11 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: from gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3) with ESMTP id 03CBh3fa027011; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net) Received: (from freebsd-rwg@localhost) by gndrsh.dnsmgr.net (8.13.3/8.13.3/Submit) id 03CBh3s3027010; Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:43:03 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from freebsd-rwg) From: "Rodney W. Grimes" Message-Id: <202004121143.03CBh3s3027010@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> Subject: Re: /root on a separate dataset breaks FreeBSD-base installation In-Reply-To: <90ddb61f-4bac-b000-0ba6-4fe0c485d45e@gjunka.com> To: Grzegorz Junka Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 04:43:03 -0700 (PDT) CC: "Rodney W. Grimes" , freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL121h (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 490VHg6z0hz41mk X-Spamd-Bar: / Authentication-Results: mx1.freebsd.org; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=none (mx1.freebsd.org: domain of freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net has no SPF policy when checking 69.59.192.140) smtp.mailfrom=freebsd-rwg@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net X-Spamd-Result: default: False [0.16 / 15.00]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_MEDIUM(-0.31)[-0.314,0]; RCPT_COUNT_THREE(0.00)[3]; TO_DN_SOME(0.00)[]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[dnsmgr.net]; AUTH_NA(1.00)[]; NEURAL_HAM_LONG(-0.46)[-0.460,0]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_SOME(0.00)[]; R_SPF_NA(0.00)[]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; ASN(0.00)[asn:13868, ipnet:69.59.192.0/19, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; IP_SCORE(0.03)[ip: (0.13), ipnet: 69.59.192.0/19(0.06), asn: 13868(0.03), country: US(-0.05)]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2] X-BeenThere: freebsd-pkgbase@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Packaging the FreeBSD base system." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2020 11:43:13 -0000 > > The norm is there are very few cross directory links and > > this is very rarely an issue unless someone modifies the > > system in a way outside of the norm. Having /root as a > > seperate dataset is outside the norm. Note this also > > places /root outside of the boot environment directory > > which may bring other issues in the future. > > > > Ports should all install stuff inder the /usr/local hierarchy > > and that is usually self contained, so hard links are not > > an issue there. > > > > Further note, if you have made /usr/local its own dataset > > your defanitly going to have issues with boot environments > > if you try to run more than 1 version of FreeBSD as /usr/local > > is pretty version dependent. > > > > /var is a whole nother crap mess with boot environments, > > pkg and multiple versions cause pkg stores its caches > > and databases in /var and /var is not part of the BE. > > > That's exactly my thinking. Boot environments might work for servers > where there are very few packages installed on host directly and the > host is usually running dedicated jails. But it's another story on a > desktop where the system and all packages take 17GB. I don't want to be > reinstalling everything manually whenever I upgrade the base system and > I don't want to deal with pkg having to work across multiple boot > environments. > > For desktop my preference is to keep one copy of /usr/local, var, tmp, > root, home, and so on, so essentially just have the base system and > basic configuration versioned in the boot environment. Sure, some > packages won't work properly, but that's easy to fix. I build them with > newer base on another system then reinstall all of them on the desktop. > > I don't consider /root as part of the base system. Here we disagree, I consider /root very much a part of the base system and it should be pretty much unused. And I am a person that logs in as root and su -'s out to user accounts, but I still do not use /root as a normal home directory, everything else is done and stored some other place. Do understand you can have more than 1 uid 0 account on a system :-) > A hardlink doesn't > make it part of a base system. The fact that it is shipped with the base system, created by the base system installer, and is pretty much a mandatory required directoy, however does make it very much part of the base system. > It's home directory for the /root user, > where I often have larger files that I either copy to install or just as > a backup of some parts of the system. I would never store backup's in /root! > Versioning it per boot environment > wouldn't make sense. Double edge sword. The set of tweaks needed in .cshrc or .profile may vary by version of FreeBSD installed. > --GrzegorzJ -- Rod Grimes rgrimes@freebsd.org