Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 09:22:09 +0100 From: David Chisnall <theraven@FreeBSD.org> To: =?utf-8?Q?Gerrit_K=C3=BChn?= <gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> Cc: freebsd-current@freebsd.org Subject: Re: why 100 packages are evil Message-ID: <417F35C8-02A3-409E-9ABE-C4803B656862@FreeBSD.org> In-Reply-To: <20160425074825.02a3b1409429ef916881ba46@aei.mpg.de> References: <E1asbZj-0003Ra-Qs@rmm6prod02.runbox.com> <76093.1461096570@critter.freebsd.dk> <5716AD65.8070007@shrew.net> <BF66EA01-E073-45F0-8F9E-22D57E8871B0@bsdimp.com> <5716FA70.4080604@freebsd.org> <57170E5D.1090701@freebsd.org> <5524F499-5042-407E-9180-43D15A53F3F0@FreeBSD.org> <7621BDAB-A409-456A-A3F1-A6CD9B371DBC@rdsor.ro> <20160420094806.GJ6614@zxy.spb.ru> <7c84f388-21dc-419f-70ce-c5369e294dab@freebsd.org> <alpine.OSX.2.00.1604222009300.15755@minnie.bitsea.ca> <34743.1461428396@critter.freebsd.dk> <571BB660.1070107@FreeBSD.org> <20160425074825.02a3b1409429ef916881ba46@aei.mpg.de>
next in thread | previous in thread | raw e-mail | index | archive | help
--Apple-Mail=_ECDCAE5E-6333-4FE2-B1D9-F07F03F80B6B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 25 Apr 2016, at 06:48, Gerrit K=C3=BChn <gerrit.kuehn@aei.mpg.de> = wrote: >=20 >> Yes. It will be replaced by 'pkg upgrade' -- as far as I know, = that's >> the plan for 11.0-RELEASE. >=20 > Hm... I never had any troubles with freebsd-update, it always "just > worked" for me. OTOH, I remember having several issues with pkg, = requiring > to fix databases manually and so on. There are two kinds of issues with freebsd-update: The first is fairly common: it=E2=80=99s slow and creates a lot of = files. If you read the forums, you=E2=80=99ll find a lot of issues = about this. Updates from one patchlevel to the next are pretty = straightforward, but on both the VMs that I use for FreeBSD and a slow = AMD machine with ZFS it takes around an hour (sometimes more) for = freebsd-update to jump one major release. After that, it takes pkg a = minute or two to update the 2-3GB of packages that need upgrading. = Minor releases can often take tens of minutes on these system. The many files issue can cause inode exhaustion. One one machine, I = just checked and have 20K files in /var/db/freebsd-update/files. If = you=E2=80=99re using UFS for /var, it=E2=80=99s fairly easy for = freebsd-update to run out of inodes. Trying to recover a FreeBSD system = that can no longer create files in /var is not the most fun uses of my = time. The second issue is that it sometimes just fails to work. I have twice = had freebsd-update manage to become confused about versions and install = a kernel that couldn=E2=80=99t read the filesystem. I=E2=80=99ve had = similar confusion where (on a box that I administer mostly via the = network and where physical access is a pain) had it install a version of = ifconfig from an older userland than the kernel. These are all on = machines where freebsd-update has been responsible for every upgrade = after the initial install from CD. Most depressingly, it spends ages = doing checksums of every file in the system, determines that they = don=E2=80=99t match the expected ones, and then installs the wrong one = anyway. I have been using the testing versions of pkg on most FreeBSD machines = since it became available. Since pkg 1.0 was released, I have had far = fewer issues with pkg than with freebsd-update and almost all of those = were to do with poor information in the ports tree and the rest were = either UI or performance issues. We have a lot tighter control over the = packaging metadata for the base system. David --Apple-Mail=_ECDCAE5E-6333-4FE2-B1D9-F07F03F80B6B Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIK5jCCBPww ggPkoAMCAQICECJrrb9nBol9MHok/UZg/AYwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwdTELMAkGA1UEBhMCSUwx FjAUBgNVBAoTDVN0YXJ0Q29tIEx0ZC4xKTAnBgNVBAsTIFN0YXJ0Q29tIENlcnRpZmljYXRpb24g QXV0aG9yaXR5MSMwIQYDVQQDExpTdGFydENvbSBDbGFzcyAxIENsaWVudCBDQTAeFw0xNjA0MTkw OTI3NDJaFw0xNzA0MTkwOTI3NDJaMEQxHTAbBgNVBAMMFHRoZXJhdmVuQGZyZWVic2Qub3JnMSMw IQYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhR0aGVyYXZlbkBmcmVlYnNkLm9yZzCCASIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQADggEP ADCCAQoCggEBALsL5pEhrGjrswHVdMHWhgxb8ARKDYRePSqpDLmjJ40bpx+n1zrvIwjC2Vk2IpoD 04rg5Pog2IrhnX+Qk2NSXzBXWj2JAaTc9OtSeAY0BtgJYXONGONQbRKVy97QBdzd1SbMEzDrOgH5 UDI+5sF1PboOTmLyTAPI9273XdfZ0BnstUXs8NXr/7p9E5CWJOsO1iQcINbm4XiwC1PLNMeWUknE Nji/hFKwcE8IFtaUe1ymbw6yA3rBpDu3KewIRD1T66FPTZJeIzvUoBIqWd+GAOfCBG2QYmbc3y/x K2hCtcXThcB1uVFA2q39koLKA8wHyqv4Jhm3wzhAqKDsWK4bGW0CAwEAAaOCAbcwggGzMA4GA1Ud DwEB/wQEAwIEsDAdBgNVHSUEFjAUBggrBgEFBQcDAgYIKwYBBQUHAwQwCQYDVR0TBAIwADAdBgNV HQ4EFgQU5J3Kc8GeW8pEGxBkcMoA7eUOPRwwHwYDVR0jBBgwFoAUJIFsOWG+SQ+PtxtGK8kotSdI bWgwbwYIKwYBBQUHAQEEYzBhMCQGCCsGAQUFBzABhhhodHRwOi8vb2NzcC5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20w OQYIKwYBBQUHMAKGLWh0dHA6Ly9haWEuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL2NlcnRzL3NjYS5jbGllbnQxLmNy dDA4BgNVHR8EMTAvMC2gK6AphidodHRwOi8vY3JsLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbS9zY2EtY2xpZW50MS5j cmwwHwYDVR0RBBgwFoEUdGhlcmF2ZW5AZnJlZWJzZC5vcmcwIwYDVR0SBBwwGoYYaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vMEYGA1UdIAQ/MD0wOwYLKwYBBAGBtTcBAgUwLDAqBggrBgEFBQcCARYe aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vcG9saWN5MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAA4IBAQBSBDH+kZf5 bZkNFcMSPdfnGC7F8utBIxs2bi3JQjsBoQTm1vnXdwgINSfO9At6iQZHoEyj8ZE6PcMFuEU0+bk0 aE8aYcW59WnxfWx943upZoMhX0YVaJcFK01EHFrddRAP44sh7Eu6JtdFuAG+6btDReMcg35Qm65X 7/280aVm7awadJ+IQs8r9qBVk2NFqkvHCETtJjNWXd7M6mcsfXstvykbubPQH/VNW/zrX6yzIcI4 aoz+Sn8RJmHNkk6cImqe1KvsdDLXmqCoeoMwos62pT18RaI//jwTdmnf5EHFMlevnxOr7rzA++71 OSZfdYf6+nvHOod1F721rNuy6lxFMIIF4jCCA8qgAwIBAgIQa6eKfQrXiNZRCvlZ5Oe04TANBgkq hkiG9w0BAQsFADB9MQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjErMCkGA1UE CxMiU2VjdXJlIERpZ2l0YWwgQ2VydGlmaWNhdGUgU2lnbmluZzEpMCcGA1UEAxMgU3RhcnRDb20g Q2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkwHhcNMTUxMjE2MDEwMDA1WhcNMzAxMjE2MDEwMDA1WjB1 MQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjEpMCcGA1UECxMgU3RhcnRDb20g Q2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkxIzAhBgNVBAMTGlN0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgQ2xpZW50 IENBMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAvX3a98OifYP2W4L921tfrh4bdcC1 Ga+YJKy7V3nYNewJHnzMlBsK0Hb8Dm4Wo3FZpylcYa1MJGT10QMGWaLER3xCIuRR+8eklf/EqeZW RLojJ7zBRtjMywPOCelrOU+DX12dKp+Ez4J6919rz1UudTO1GvZyCYJ/I7062uHsskM8b7gPxmcC oO1UHwwpgkvpCArJWGFoFzjLdsZbErJcS3HtAhlkbE/BKTMrdYg35Uo12SLBO5tbk8h2imbKTC8i Ms+pskrvI/AVlh6QoTTXk6xboVX6zgMgzxSVVLymQiygYYm0y5aMsvi2raFhC643SOGvErWWPPnS EfbeAD1xswIDAQABo4IBZDCCAWAwDgYDVR0PAQH/BAQDAgEGMB0GA1UdJQQWMBQGCCsGAQUFBwMC BggrBgEFBQcDBDASBgNVHRMBAf8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMDIGA1UdHwQrMCkwJ6AloCOGIWh0dHA6Ly9j cmwuc3RhcnRzc2wuY29tL3Nmc2NhLmNybDBmBggrBgEFBQcBAQRaMFgwJAYIKwYBBQUHMAGGGGh0 dHA6Ly9vY3NwLnN0YXJ0c3NsLmNvbTAwBggrBgEFBQcwAoYkaHR0cDovL2FpYS5zdGFydHNzbC5j b20vY2VydHMvY2EuY3J0MB0GA1UdDgQWBBQkgWw5Yb5JD4+3G0YrySi1J0htaDAfBgNVHSMEGDAW gBROC+8apEBbpRdphzDKNGhD0EGu8jA/BgNVHSAEODA2MDQGBFUdIAAwLDAqBggrBgEFBQcCARYe aHR0cDovL3d3dy5zdGFydHNzbC5jb20vcG9saWN5MA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAA4ICAQCL4/eH7AGL hK0PAQJbnOEjJyMEvTTwcAJuUh/bodjQl06u4putYOxdSyIjSP/sKt+31LmjG8+IO1WqykE4H/Lm 7NKezWVnCHuwb3ptgFmlwbMbGkU2MOZBtwzfKXdYUhFLhaE2uw5jXhXvLYitQay962wP5uPI6eAI hV4L8aaya1u4s7MnrTq0Rz25FuGNO79vTHYWj797tSRC8rM16js4yGKOLFpQvIg0F8IElv57b1st p+C7omqM5Qn15dePbSnqr8Jb65WtmJJbnv6rlqfY/aLuE/zmNAlzLmPgfMDStKIXdg+EoYBZTEo8 wBUaBxihfNbJ069ndQOxMNNqBelEMgpAtmjTbCuXFjqIwWq+XOx6ZV/Wh2FAmaLsSHlNvEjjSQMZ wE4EeHCdo66ZmEs/5JYlCeOkulKVQ6P3m5/XOj2jP17Q2AgmjP+11+sHN7PvrG0OwrQp9QMe3X+r n0G8MjtFfqBWvR9CgLIxzM3MJNxFdgdjS2rYnShP5uxvqwfZvhZVYCIkqdJhpYON0DvSodfiar0w iM79mySZJjzC0CTbiisBzS/BeBhqeo2wFfli/iw3hn1XKvAx0ty6w/scmBF0AYqmRHYj1TjMSw0l Al7AztLglqWjUPI+sukvadMRPxmtKXlS2nVR4an/Z16imsZ69+fFYH68c1CK7zmjozGCA04wggNK AgEBMIGJMHUxCzAJBgNVBAYTAklMMRYwFAYDVQQKEw1TdGFydENvbSBMdGQuMSkwJwYDVQQLEyBT dGFydENvbSBDZXJ0aWZpY2F0aW9uIEF1dGhvcml0eTEjMCEGA1UEAxMaU3RhcnRDb20gQ2xhc3Mg MSBDbGllbnQgQ0ECECJrrb9nBol9MHok/UZg/AYwCQYFKw4DAhoFAKCCAZkwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkD MQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMTYwNDI1MDgyMjA5WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQx FgQUiLVaxyI8fxj+ARrse8KzHeUyIIUwgZoGCSsGAQQBgjcQBDGBjDCBiTB1MQswCQYDVQQGEwJJ TDEWMBQGA1UEChMNU3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjEpMCcGA1UECxMgU3RhcnRDb20gQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlv biBBdXRob3JpdHkxIzAhBgNVBAMTGlN0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgQ2xpZW50IENBAhAia62/ZwaJ fTB6JP1GYPwGMIGcBgsqhkiG9w0BCRACCzGBjKCBiTB1MQswCQYDVQQGEwJJTDEWMBQGA1UEChMN U3RhcnRDb20gTHRkLjEpMCcGA1UECxMgU3RhcnRDb20gQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlvbiBBdXRob3JpdHkx IzAhBgNVBAMTGlN0YXJ0Q29tIENsYXNzIDEgQ2xpZW50IENBAhAia62/ZwaJfTB6JP1GYPwGMA0G CSqGSIb3DQEBAQUABIIBAGQYPWUHSgA9p5LeqKVOBcWrxBCLPPVNQvdNrFuUDvItQvnjZ+G2+8vf 1IUZa37OZ/kkIwwS9esu+bGxklUD3U2wlJ78IATwo9HozyjL5gxW0CDDKijk2d6ZdZBRBR9PqLcs xQH+AjBpGtkYSKiYmBvtUFgUqz3wG70cFi2iexcoFvevA6KrUdX5i8I4/UPa47AElune//DQZaWV ORqGB9F9WFQOhcY9Pw7NBSphCJE3TAc4udisH5yYB+rVGkEt4M3yI+Kxzy0Qq3qc9ls+5ouRmteP 18oCMmsHCX1q+l2Um8em56jpeQMfJjdeQV03RHjUICcYYiN+8kJtit/+BmkAAAAAAAA= --Apple-Mail=_ECDCAE5E-6333-4FE2-B1D9-F07F03F80B6B--
Want to link to this message? Use this URL: <https://mail-archive.FreeBSD.org/cgi/mid.cgi?417F35C8-02A3-409E-9ABE-C4803B656862>