From owner-freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Mon Aug 5 09:17:15 2019 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-questions@mailman.nyi.freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2610:1c1:1:606c::19:1]) by mailman.nyi.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93D1DBE855 for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 09:17:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) Received: from sonic311-30.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (sonic311-30.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com [77.238.176.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (Client did not present a certificate) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 462Bx63NPFz4QQP for ; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 09:17:14 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from ralf.mardorf@rocketmail.com) X-YMail-OSG: N0Ppwj8VM1na3KchVTaYwZ8hQlzlhc1_tnb2JOxhFEfcitllNaVBUpi5oN64Wao FfO4gA5Rv1vShMuz.OPUuLkU4yDUCzjOUy22KD0LiRUmVIsfYodUorcpFhRO40UGsccbQnkxTW3u 7SpFlGUSIhorIH9CB7TfQYvS8u0JDV91RYj9OJKJCaRLKBdguql_cKOlfbmG5x2iG2V84twPySnV V6cIxICV6zyOo1.TAeD2ckA3UNk6KJVrfarY3VngmWE1nwtBPEvA3KElwscuHlKek89aoP7StToe MS2DDQi.rrYRxf82gNc2yVTvAuVFJnmR9MdhYAZrE5_ZAb7wOaG7S1uVKd8V2CDwjLjcZgE2qafq CR.l2ru5Vq2UYNsnEQD9.JWOfDOxwnsBfbuYyvbqSevRxTizMBHemDMJULcVJ_z9NPuDLzZOKwxQ DlRVMGCFHFbzNZ0MT5otShQGbAaDovTH2BAoKIaf0bgGqHhVrzLPX9wtksO_Yy3U5YdwRBHQg24j jAElF5z6TQXJk3hjNeBh9rzhUybQpmeOAvGXfuonVFNHNSyxvTTaJFvZmmEY2HPTE9N3r7uWS1iM Jpc2xUTpgZNteD4wxhGYvmSscEIYtHnQuAkvDwJMkZw0JNaBH0jcUpzzsm.8.DgzbzUNZKMI31pS r0G3FKr.kdDy6sHoZqqD.wkHbm4l1rzkfb_vXU0uNC4sChGVVKBQho2CnA964gsJ1iGsmIKMbDCz VA1VKxk3vUvExkz3TJ5qUmUcE.HFdNJgDnJSEEi9MQTA.dMmh4ij7tS7CkzD9jVfIDgADXfCgXEl qXNm97Dm.cz1zuHaJbnBfLTXMdwM_D18HiWH.ijMXY7NDJxjvGy79jS_eWQdHxOGApMxBUh6g2Ie DUYooUKK4SE3Lz94MqDRdCaKPZByGQCSfwBXW6R7ltw0ZivPQ58wUxXw.je8s4NSHjMNjyN_hr9W EoLifMJjjtJ.G0tQj.K59boqmqQIn_Zr4QZiOSAPq1AcYI1aEGTeSuYEjLB_9XAcytY7s4fWhFaK PBo2VM.LokvoecNQOAngVq6s5cfVTDcoelBJWADXfzV7P2paktoU3wEbEUPYMOEnIP1i4poH2e.H pjv_EuRWXcpB6a5x.l9kUPzQUyIjlevhaECSyPpxWFlv_RQGPfasg4OsVQHn7f8dSxJuEjngaz9P NAGBwNcfSnwx5XGRBSQvF44QmkZWqdGJ5HdNrYSgGRBXBaT0bCAjFzNFeyAP_LFx8L4c4mdg0kOk II_bdnqMgQTofKX6BBWHy8eWrb1LpKOfIY3Hk2EcupczN Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with HTTP; Mon, 5 Aug 2019 09:17:11 +0000 Received: by smtp419.mail.ir2.yahoo.com (Oath Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID c150b43e2f9bfc33ed43a6946e3eb8ca; Mon, 05 Aug 2019 09:07:05 +0000 (UTC) Date: Mon, 5 Aug 2019 11:07:06 +0200 From: Ralf Mardorf To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: thunderbird in German? Message-ID: <20190805110706.1b21e528@archlinux> In-Reply-To: <20190805071120.c258204a.freebsd@edvax.de> References: <87o91bw4mx.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190731012754.3783a859.freebsd@edvax.de> <878ssc5v3x.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802060356.eebda021.freebsd@edvax.de> <87tvaz8gkn.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190802213025.884985d57dbfd7bf20ae4cd5@sohara.org> <87lfw9bxeb.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20190804093710.66948e68@archlinux> <20190805071120.c258204a.freebsd@edvax.de> X-Mailer: Claws Mail (linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Rspamd-Queue-Id: 462Bx63NPFz4QQP X-Spamd-Bar: +++++++ X-Spamd-Result: default: False [7.00 / 15.00]; XM_UA_NO_VERSION(0.01)[]; R_SPF_ALLOW(0.00)[+ptr:yahoo.com]; FREEMAIL_FROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; TO_DN_NONE(0.00)[]; DKIM_TRACE(0.00)[rocketmail.com:+]; DMARC_POLICY_ALLOW(0.00)[rocketmail.com,reject]; SEM_URIBL(3.50)[ubuntu.com.uribl.spameatingmonkey.net]; FROM_EQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:34010, ipnet:77.238.176.0/22, country:GB]; IP_SCORE(0.00)[ip: (6.93), ipnet: 77.238.176.0/22(2.24), asn: 34010(1.77), country: GB(-0.08)]; FREEMAIL_ENVFROM(0.00)[rocketmail.com]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; R_DKIM_ALLOW(0.00)[rocketmail.com:s=s2048]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; TO_MATCH_ENVRCPT_ALL(0.00)[]; NEURAL_SPAM_SHORT(0.99)[0.994,0]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; NEURAL_SPAM_MEDIUM(1.00)[0.998,0]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; BAD_REP_POLICIES(0.10)[]; IP_SCORE_FREEMAIL(0.00)[]; RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE(0.00)[162.176.238.77.list.dnswl.org : 127.0.5.0]; RWL_MAILSPIKE_POSSIBLE(0.00)[162.176.238.77.rep.mailspike.net : 127.0.0.17]; MID_RHS_NOT_FQDN(0.50)[]; RCVD_COUNT_TWO(0.00)[2]; GREYLIST(0.00)[pass,body] X-Spam: Yes X-BeenThere: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: User questions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2019 09:17:15 -0000 Hi, it's too funny that a thread about enabling translations for a Mozilla MUA excesses to a general discussion about development nowadays and it's even more funny that this kind of discussion happens on a lot of mailing lists (for example [1]). Off-list a subscriber asked why GTK and Qt do look ugly. The problem is that a lot of people who maintained good themes discontinued those themes, since they can't spend the time to rework the complete theme with each micro update of Qt and GTK. I found a theme for GTK2 and GTK3 that is comparable to the old Adwaita GTK2 theme, so all GTK apps look more or less like GTK2 apps, while the new Adwaita theme makes all GTK apps look like GTK3 apps, even faking the look of GTK3 widget options GTK2 doesn't have. The theme I found is called arc-theme, but I still had to edit the theme, for my taste it's not good by default, but at least most of the work already is done by the maintainer of the theme. I don't use a desktop environment, I'm just using a window manager and I stay with X, while on Linux there are tendencies to migrate to Wayland. For Qt3, Qt4 and Qt5 different "Troll"tech configurations are required, to go into details is off-topic and my time frame doesn't allow to do so. Perhaps helpful, Qt5 requires a plugin: https://qt5ct.sourceforge.net If somebody should use GNOME apps, https://github.com/PCMan/gtk3-nocsd might be helpful to keep some consistency with non-GNOME apps. On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:47:03 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >Alt+left click A reason why I migrated from jwm to openbox. Actually I don't use it very often, since I've written a script [2] that does move windows that hide the title bar under the top panel, which was most of the times the reason to move windows by Alt+left_mouse_button for me. On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 06:47:03 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >tiling window manager as well as some desktop environments could become a PITA, if a parent window opens a child window, so the "are you sure to continue request" window could be invisible, since they don't follow some freedesktop or whatsoever else rules. >On Sun, 04 Aug 2019 02:07:00 +0200, hw wrote: >> So I don't understand how anyone can put up with the useless crap you >> have to tap on while you can't see anything and achieve nothing. I'm using an iPad Pro 12.9" 3rd gen with an Apple Pencil 2nd gen. What graphic tablet with or without build-in monitor for FreeBSD, Linux or any other desktop PC can hold a candle on the desktop, let alone when drawing in nature? I'm doing almost everything with a desktop PC, but even for music productions I'm doing most of the work on the iPad nowadays. My impression is that the community of computer users who prefer desktop PCs for almost everything, but migrating for graphic and music to iPads (for good reasons not migrating to Android or other tablets) is increasing rapidly. On Mon, 5 Aug 2019 07:11:20 +0200, Polytropon wrote: >That is an important thought! > >As Gtk2 probably will EOL just like Gtk (1) did, newer toolkit >versions _might_ tie much stronger into Linux infrastructures >than the current version does, and porting them to FreeBSD might >cause trouble because of missing kernel interfaces or library >functions. Let alone that they already cause issues on Linux machines, especially apps that started the migration from GTK2 to GTK3, the reason why the GTK3 port of Claws is unusable. (To the subscriber who replied off-list: Claws GTK2 is not experimental, its GTK3 port is experiemntal) FWIW non-GUI apps are not necessarily better than some silly burger menu GNOME apps: On Wed, 31 Jul 2019 12:12:26 +0200, an Ubuntu users mailing list subscriber wrote: >To quote an anonymous wit: >=C2=AB >Hey, don't dismiss Vim. I've been using Vim for about 3 years now. > >Mostly because I can't figure out how to exit... >=C2=BB Regards, Ralf [1] The attitude that failure isn't the fault of the developers of brand-new software, but the fault of all the developers of apps that are used since decades, if they don't rewrite their apps to fit to the brand-new software: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2019-July/297903.html "We" change the underlying infrastructure, so "we" are breaking everything good and stable (but actually it anyway isn't "good" in the first place) and we do not care. It's the duty of other to fix the issues "we" cause. Wayland is not the first change by people with this attitude, within the last decade it happened several times and some things were never fixed, even not after ten years. [2] [rocketmouse@archlinux ~]$ cat /usr/local/bin/window2unhide=20 #!/bin/dash # window2unhide 2017-08-25 Ralf Mardorf # To configure window2unhide you could use /etc/profile.d/window2unhide.sh # # values of the wanted x and y position of the window # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_POS=3Dhold # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS=3D141 # # delay required to ensure that a launched application's window is active # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_SLEEP=3D1 # # values to eliminate x and y drift of the window # this fix is needed for all windows # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_FIX=3D2 # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_FIX=3D54 # # offset required to eliminate x and y drift of the window if x and/or y do/does not change # this offset is needed for windows that open under the top panel # but its unfavorable for windows that don't open under the top panel # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_OFF=3D1 # export WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_OFF=3D25 unhide_window () { # values of the wanted x and y position of the window case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_POS in ""|hold) WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_POS=3D$X ;; esac case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS in "") WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS=3D141 ;; hold) WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS=3D$Y ;; esac # value to eliminate x drift of the window case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_FIX in "") WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_FIX=3D2 ;; esac # calculate value for x position of the window... case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_POS in $X) # ...if the x position doesn't change subtract the value to eliminate x drift and add an offset case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_OFF in "")=20 WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_OFF=3D1 ;; esac X_POS=3D$(expr $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_POS - $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_FIX + $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_OFF) ;; *) # ...if the x position does change subtract the value to eliminate x drift X_POS=3D$(expr $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_POS - $WINDOW2UNHIDE_X_FIX) ;; esac # value to eliminate y drift of the window case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_FIX in "") WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_FIX=3D54 ;; esac # calculate value for y position of the window... case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS in $Y) # ...if the y position doesn't change subtract the value to eliminate y drift and add an offset case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_OFF in "") WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_OFF=3D25 ;; esac Y_POS=3D$(expr $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS - $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_FIX + $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_OFF) ;; *) # ...if the x position does change subtract the value to eliminate x drift Y_POS=3D$(expr $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_POS - $WINDOW2UNHIDE_Y_FIX) ;; esac # move the window to new position wmctrl -i -r $WINDOW -b remove,maximized_vert,maximized_horz wmctrl -i -r $WINDOW -e "0,$X_POS,$Y_POS,$WIDTH,$HEIGHT" } case $1 in "") # unhide active window eval $(xdotool getwindowgeometry --shell $(xdotool getactivewindow)) unhide_window ;; *) # launch an application and unhide its window case $WINDOW2UNHIDE_SLEEP in "") WINDOW2UNHIDE_SLEEP=3D1 ;; esac $@ & sleep $WINDOW2UNHIDE_SLEEP # ensure that the window of the launched application... eval $(xdotool getwindowgeometry --shell $(xdotool getactivewindow)) wmctrl -l | grep $(printf '%x\n' $WINDOW) | grep -qi $1 # ...is the active window case $? in 0) unhide_window ;; esac ;; esac exit