From owner-freebsd-arch@FreeBSD.ORG Thu Nov 29 04:17:16 2007 Return-Path: Delivered-To: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Received: from mx1.freebsd.org (mx1.freebsd.org [IPv6:2001:4f8:fff6::34]) by hub.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E3FC16A418; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:17:16 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from relay02.kiev.sovam.com (relay02.kiev.sovam.com [62.64.120.197]) by mx1.freebsd.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0ECC13C459; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:17:15 +0000 (UTC) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: from [212.82.216.226] (helo=deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua) by relay02.kiev.sovam.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1Ixapr-0009aL-L7; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:17:14 +0200 Received: from deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (kostik@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id lAT4HBD2062916; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:17:11 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) Received: (from kostik@localhost) by deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua (8.14.2/8.14.2/Submit) id lAT4HBhR062915; Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:17:11 +0200 (EET) (envelope-from kostikbel@gmail.com) X-Authentication-Warning: deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua: kostik set sender to kostikbel@gmail.com using -f Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:17:11 +0200 From: Kostik Belousov To: Robert Watson Message-ID: <20071129041710.GC83121@deviant.kiev.zoral.com.ua> References: <20071128211022.GA74762@lor.one-eyed-alien.net> <20071128213947.Q7555@fledge.watson.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="Bu8it7iiRSEf40bY" Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20071128213947.Q7555@fledge.watson.org> User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.3i X-Scanner-Signature: 5e2df25549de819b25d1bfd51e9f52eb X-DrWeb-checked: yes X-SpamTest-Envelope-From: kostikbel@gmail.com X-SpamTest-Group-ID: 00000000 X-SpamTest-Info: Profiles 1834 [Nov 29 2007] X-SpamTest-Info: helo_type=3 X-SpamTest-Info: {received from trusted relay: not dialup} X-SpamTest-Method: none X-SpamTest-Method: Local Lists X-SpamTest-Rate: 0 X-SpamTest-Status: Not detected X-SpamTest-Status-Extended: not_detected X-SpamTest-Version: SMTP-Filter Version 3.0.0 [0255], KAS30/Release Cc: Brooks Davis , freebsd-arch@freebsd.org Subject: Re: RFC: libkse*.a in 7.0 X-BeenThere: freebsd-arch@freebsd.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion related to FreeBSD architecture List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2007 04:17:16 -0000 --Bu8it7iiRSEf40bY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 28, 2007 at 09:42:10PM +0000, Robert Watson wrote: >=20 > On Wed, 28 Nov 2007, Brooks Davis wrote: >=20 > >A number of people have proposed a direction in 8.0 that would remove=20 > >support for the syscalls and kernel data structures required by libkse.= =20 > >Apparently this would enable significant simplification of portions of t= he=20 > >kernel, but I have no deeply held personal opinion. The intent is that = if=20 > >that happens, alternate versions of the necessicary dynamic libraries wi= ll=20 > >be supplied in updated compat#x packages. This will address most=20 > >consumers. The one set of consumers that would not be addressed is those= =20 > >who have statically linked, threaded binaries using libkse. >=20 > It's worth noting that some other mainstream operating systems work hard = to=20 > disallow static linking for precisely this sort of reason -- when I last= =20 > checked, Mac OS X had only one statically linked binary, init, and it may= =20 > well be that launchd is dynamically linked. This is part of a very=20 > explicit policy that the defined ABI for applications is *not* the system= =20 > call layer, but rather, the library interfaces, which gives greater=20 > flexibility to modify the system call interface as needed. Some more other mainstream operating system did break the ABI at the syscall level precisely changing the threading model. Now, they have to implement separate project to be able to execute runtime for version 8 on the version 10. What is worst, they require a full zone to do this. FreeBSD ability to run the old binary is very valuable. --Bu8it7iiRSEf40bY Content-Type: application/pgp-signature Content-Disposition: inline -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFHTj1GC3+MBN1Mb4gRAlUeAKCI+nEYSVFgobChmp2QDidnAWD7qgCg4gCj 1nGhcvhmANi/CoEuN1DABK4= =vXXE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Bu8it7iiRSEf40bY--